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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 03:48pm
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Timeouts

So my partner yesterday told me about a game where coach A took a timeout, then coach B, then coach A wanted another one. He said he didn't allow the third one. I asked him when did this action occur? He said in the middle of a game. I said you aren't supported by rule to deny that request.

But this got me thinking: if a team had run out of timeouts but was still taking and granted timeouts (and being charged technicals) is there any points that you could deny? What if they were successive? At some point it becomes a travesty and we could forfeit a team, but is there any guidance on when that would be?

Considering an excess time-out is administrative, so the head coach is never charged indirectly for any of these.

Sorry for those that hate the 1 off situations that will probably never happen, this one just got me thinking.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 03:54pm
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As If It Would Actually Happen . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
So my partner yesterday told me about a game where coach A took a timeout, then coach B, then coach A wanted another one. He said he didn't allow the third one. I asked him when did this action occur? He said in the middle of a game. I said you aren't supported by rule to deny that request.

But this got me thinking: if a team had run out of timeouts but was still taking and granted timeouts (and being charged technicals) is there any points that you could deny? What if they were successive? At some point it becomes a travesty and we could forfeit a team, but is there any guidance on when that would be?

Considering an excess time-out is administrative, so the head coach is never charged indirectly for any of these.

Sorry for those that hate the 1 off situations that will probably never happen, this one just got me thinking.
Unless you deem it in accord with 10-1-5, "Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest", by rule there's nothing against it. Though that just might be the rule to enact to forbid it if/when it would ever occur, which would probably be never anyway. Theoretically.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:01pm
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Unless you deem it in accord with 10-1-5, "Allow the game to develop into an actionless contest", by rule there's nothing against it. Though that just might be the rule to enact to forbid it if/when it would ever occur, which would probably be never anyway. Theoretically.
But that's just another team technical, not charged directly or indirectly to the head coach.

But you're right, this is all academic, cause we'll never see it.

So I guess my question would be, is there anything short of forfeit that we can do to deny a team timeouts? Middle of the game scenario, not end of 4th or start of OT

Last edited by Toren; Wed Jan 11, 2012 at 04:11pm.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:40pm
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If the team is out of time-outs and continues to request them, you could forfeit the game under 5-4-1.

Quote:
NFHS 5-4-1: "The referee may also forfeit a game if any player, team member, bench personnel or coach fails to comply with any technical-foul penalty, or repeatedly commits technical-foul infractions or other acts which make a travesty of the game."
Seems pretty simple to me. The not-simple part is deciding at what point you would do that - but a forfeit here would have rules backing.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
So my partner yesterday told me about a game where coach A took a timeout, then coach B, then coach A wanted another one. He said he didn't allow the third one. I asked him when did this action occur? He said in the middle of a game. I said you aren't supported by rule to deny that request.

But this got me thinking: if a team had run out of timeouts but was still taking and granted timeouts (and being charged technicals) is there any points that you could deny? What if they were successive? At some point it becomes a travesty and we could forfeit a team, but is there any guidance on when that would be?

Considering an excess time-out is administrative, so the head coach is never charged indirectly for any of these.

Sorry for those that hate the 1 off situations that will probably never happen, this one just got me thinking.
Your situation is so "1 off" nobody has thought it needed any guidance.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 05:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
But that's just another team technical, not charged directly or indirectly to the head coach.

But you're right, this is all academic, cause we'll never see it.

So I guess my question would be, is there anything short of forfeit that we can do to deny a team timeouts? Middle of the game scenario, not end of 4th or start of OT
Nope.....if they're out and request one, they get one (assuming the request comes at a valid time).
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 06:34pm
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Originally Posted by mtn335 View Post
if the team is out of time-outs and continues to request them, you could forfeit the game under 5-4-1.

Seems pretty simple to me. The not-simple part is deciding at what point you would do that - but a forfeit here would have rules backing.
+1
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:13pm
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Question

So, is it correct under Fed rules that there is no limit to the number of successive timeouts that teams can request and be granted (if they have timeouts left) except at the end of the 4th quarter or start of OT? Theoretically, team A can ask for 5 in a row (if they had 5) without the ball ever becoming live and we would be required to grant them all? I think that's correct.

And, I don't want to get into requesting excessive ones that would result in technicals, just ones that remain.
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:34pm
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Not Quite . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Refner View Post
So, is it correct under Fed rules that there is no limit to the number of successive timeouts that teams can request and be granted (if they have timeouts left) except at the end of the 4th quarter or start of OT? Theoretically, team A can ask for 5 in a row (if they had 5) without the ball ever becoming live and we would be required to grant them all? I think that's correct.

And, I don't want to get into requesting excessive ones that would result in technicals, just ones that remain.
Not quite . . . cf. 5-11-5
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Old Wed Jan 11, 2012, 07:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Not quite . . . cf. 5-11-5
So the exception to which you refer means they can't have a timeout right at the beginning of the game prior to the ball becoming live to start the game and the same rule applies to the start of any extra period. Got it. Thanks.
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Old Thu Jan 12, 2012, 09:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toren View Post
At some point it becomes a travesty and we could forfeit a team, but is there any guidance on when that would be?
3 in IAABO states. In non-IAABO states it's 4 in the first half, 3 in the third quarter, and 2 in the 4th quarter, but only if it's by the losing team and the score differential is greater than 10.

Or, sometimes you just need to officiate.
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