Judging a "judgement" call

[Rufus]

The only time I think about helping is if my partner asks for it and I have definitive knowledge/clear look.

If the coach asks you about a supposed botched call your partner made the response I use is "My partner had a good look and you can ask him next dead ball." I would try to avoid long discussions with them as it just gives them ammo to continue to complain. Definitely would not pass judgement on a partner's call (good or bad).

[rickman5]

Originally Posted by Rufus

The only time I think about helping is if my partner asks for it and I have definitive knowledge/clear look.

If the coach asks you about a supposed botched call your partner made the response I use is "My partner had a good look and you can ask him next dead ball." I would try to avoid long discussions with them as it just gives them ammo to continue to complain. Definitely would not pass judgement on a partner's call (good or bad).

Normally I would say something like that but when he flat out gets a rule wrong what else can you say?

[tref]

I agree with Bob, if the whistle came immediately upon the shooter making contact with ball again & I clearly saw the airball. That would lead me to believe my partner is misapplying a rule as opposed to a judgement call.

Originally Posted by Rufus

The only time I think about helping is if my partner asks for it and I have definitive knowledge/clear look.

No disrespect but I dislike working with the official of this mindset. I believe if one has definite knowledge/clear look there is no need to wait for a partner to ask for help. Why hoard info to yourself & then (usually) get in the lockerroom & throw it in their face

Originally Posted by rickman5

Normally I would say something like that but when he flat out gets a rule wrong what else can you say?

"We had an IW with Team A in control coaches, we're going to get this play right & administer a throw-in to Team A on the endline."

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by tref

No disrespect but I dislike working with the official of this mindset. I believe if one has definite knowledge/clear look there is no need to wait for a partner to ask for help. Why hoard info to yourself & then (usually) get in the lockerroom & throw it in their face

None taken. There's a couple of reasons, though, why I approach it that way: (1) If I run in there immediately it undermines my partner's credibility individually and ours as a team (i.e., one has to go in an rescue the other one) and (2) if we've pre-gamed appropriately he knows he can come to me if he's unsure and ask if I had a different interpretation.

Even if I have what I think is a clear view of the play I'm still farther away from it than my partner in most cases and may not have seen the thing that caused him to make the call.

Finally, and we've never called together so you have no way to know this, but I wouldn't just throw it in there face. I would would bring it up, but more like a "what did you have on that call." This happened this weekend, actually, where I passed on a call and one of my partners made it (even though the play was in my primary). We discussed what each other saw quickly during a dead ball and moved on, no drama.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Rufus

None taken. There's a couple of reasons, though, why I approach it that way: (1) If I run in there immediately it undermines my partner's credibility individually and ours as a team (i.e., one has to go in an rescue the other one) .

Back in the 90s era I'd agree, in todays "get the call right" era, he undermined his own credibility by misapplying the rule, a basic 101 rule at that. All you're doing is putting the game first by providing help to your teammate. In order of importance, it is:
1. Game
2. Parnters
3. Ourselves

Originally Posted by Rufus

(2) if we've pre-gamed appropriately he knows he can come to me if he's unsure and ask if I had a different interpretation..

I agree, if thats what you pregammed. Personally, my pregame goes a bit different. "If I come in to provide information it is for the good of the GAME & not personal. There is no need to make our discussion longer by asking me, are you sure, because I am not coming in unless I am 110%."

Originally Posted by Rufus

Finally, and we've never called together so you have no way to know this, but I wouldn't just throw it in there face. I would would bring it up, but more like a "what did you have on that call." This happened this weekend, actually, where I passed on a call and one of my partners made it (even though the play was in my primary). We discussed what each other saw quickly during a dead ball and moved on, no drama.

I didnt mean to imply that you did, but I have seen this act several times. It generally starts out with "what did you see." Then it goes to "well I saw it all the way & the ball never hit the rim, you called the travel before he could move so I know he didn travel, etc, etc."

I'm like, well why didnt you help him if you had definite knowledge?!?!
Some guys enjoy watching others make mistakes even if they are on the crew (which makes the entire crew look bad)
They are hiring crews of 3 not 3 individuals like back in the day.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by rickman5

Normally I would say something like that but when he flat out gets a rule wrong what else can you say?

There's nothing you can say. I would have done the same thing you did. Your partner didn't know the rule. Misapplied said rule. Then tried to make up some story to the coach.

This could all have been avoided if he simply told the coach, "i might have screwed up and I would love another look at the play."

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by deecee

Your partner didn't know the rule. Misapplied said rule. Then tried to make up some story to the coach.

This could all have been avoided if he simply told the coach, "i might have screwed up and I would love another look at the play."

This is a contradiction. If someone really thinks he knows the rule (but doesn't), he's not going to think he's wrong. So the second part of your comment will never happen. That's why there was a mess. You have to know the rules. You just have to. (not you, just a general comment)

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is a contradiction. If someone really thinks he knows the rule (but doesn't), he's not going to think he's wrong. So the second part of your comment will never happen. That's why there was a mess. You have to know the rules. You just have to. (not you, just a general comment)

I thought about that after I hit submit. What I should have typed was he should have shut his yap rather than just guess.

And Welpe - His partner gave the coach a missile so there is nothing you, or I could say, that is worse than what the partner did.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by deecee

And Welpe - His partner gave the coach a missile so there is nothing you, or I could say, that is worse than what the partner did.

Exactly so don't go giving him more ammunition by telling a coach your partner was wrong.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Exactly so don't go giving him more ammunition by telling a coach your partner was wrong.

The coach already knows he was wrong...What do you do? Play stupid as well?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is a contradiction. If someone really thinks he knows the rule (but doesn't), he's not going to think he's wrong. So the second part of your comment will never happen. That's why there was a mess. You have to know the rules. You just have to. (not you, just a general comment)

Right. But when the assigner asks (and they will), I'd rather say "I went in with the correct information" than "I thought he might have had something else."

[tref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Right. But when the assigner asks (and they will), I'd rather say "I went in with the correct information" than "I thought he might have had something else."

The guys I work for are taking assignments when the bolded words come out your mouth.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tref

the guys i work for are taking assignments when the bolded words come out your mouth.

+1

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

The guys I work for are taking assignments when the bolded words come out your mouth.

Just to clarify, are you expected to watch your area and your partners' areas to make sure they don't kick a rule?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is a contradiction. If someone really thinks he knows the rule (but doesn't), he's not going to think he's wrong. So the second part of your comment will never happen. That's why there was a mess. You have to know the rules. You just have to. (not you, just a general comment)

That happens more than people realize. I have had to pull out my rulebook so they believe me when it comes to the rule. I almost always have a debate with someone during a tournament and we have to prove to someone what the rule actually says. So that is why if someone screws up a rule, unless I am 1000 percent sure I would almost never come in to change it. I might talk to them afterwards, but I would not change something they think they got right.

Peace