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-   -   Charging vs. Player control (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/85166-charging-vs-player-control.html)

APG Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809110)
??? What am I missing here? How can a charge NOT be a PC foul?

Anytime a player goes through a legally positioned player's torso, the foul is one for charging. So for example, a defensive player running through a player in legal screening position.

Hartsy Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 809112)
Anytime a player goes through a legally positioned player's torso, the foul is one for charging. So for example, a defensive player running through a player in legal screening position.

Ah. That's a new distinction to me. That sounds to me like a run of the mill, pushing foul. I've never heard anyone say a defender was called for a charge.

Toren Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809114)
Ah. That's a new distinction to me. That sounds to me like a run of the mill, pushing foul. I've never heard anyone say a defender was called for a charge.

I've seen some defenders run straight through a screen, no hands, just shoulder down almost football style.

Charge...and sometimes a short discussion about upgrading.

APG Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809114)
Ah. That's a new distinction to me. That sounds to me like a run of the mill, pushing foul. I've never heard anyone say a defender was called for a charge.

Rule 4, Section 7

ART. 2 . . . Charging is illegal personal contact caused by pushing or moving into an opponent’s torso.

Hartsy Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 809116)
Rule 4, Section 7

ART. 2 . . . Charging is illegal personal contact caused by pushing or moving into an opponent’s torso.

Mmm hmm. By definition, a defender pushing through a screen is a charging foul. I'd hate to see the confusion from someone not signalling this a push, but rather using the hand behind the head associated with the commonly known charge.

PG_Ref Thu Dec 29, 2011 01:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809117)
Mmm hmm. By definition, a defender pushing through a screen is a charging foul. I'd hate to see the confusion from someone not signalling this a push, but rather using the hand behind the head associated with the commonly known charge.

A hand behind the head is for a player control foul ... not a charge. You use the "push" mechanic also for a charge.

Toren Thu Dec 29, 2011 01:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809117)
Mmm hmm. By definition, a defender pushing through a screen is a charging foul. I'd hate to see the confusion from someone not signalling this a push, but rather using the hand behind the head associated with the commonly known charge.

Hand Behind the head is Player Control Foul. Push/Charge is two hands out, in a pushing motion.

Hartsy Thu Dec 29, 2011 01:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toren (Post 809121)
Hand Behind the head is Player Control Foul. Push/Charge is two hands out, in a pushing motion.

That's the point. Hand behind head is what many consider a charging signal, not a player control signal.

Toren Thu Dec 29, 2011 01:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809122)
That's the point. Hand behind head is what many consider a charging signal, not a player control signal.

As long as you don't :D

BktBallRef Thu Dec 29, 2011 02:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809122)
That's the point. Hand behind head is what many consider a charging signal, not a player control signal.

Many also believe other myths. Who cares? Do you allow that to effect what you call?

ballgame99 Thu Dec 29, 2011 02:18pm

the distinction between a PCF and just a pushing foul matters why? Just in whether or not the foulee is shooting 1&1?

Welpe Thu Dec 29, 2011 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809122)
That's the point. Hand behind head is what many consider a charging signal, not a player control signal.

Those same people also scream for three seconds when the ball is bouncing on the rim after a shot.

PG_Ref Thu Dec 29, 2011 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartsy (Post 809122)
That's the point. Hand behind head is what many consider a charging signal, not a player control signal.

Then they have not looked at the mechanics signals chart in the manual.

BillyMac Fri Dec 30, 2011 01:44pm

Knuckleheads ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 809138)
Those same people also scream for three seconds when the ball is bouncing on the rim after a shot.

Don't you just love it?

Hartsy Fri Dec 30, 2011 03:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 809133)
Many also believe other myths. Who cares? Do you allow that to effect what you call?

Doesn't affect what I call at all. I was pointing out that incorrectly signaling a defensive "charge" with hand behind head signal could potentially confuse your partner, table crew, and/or coaches, let alone fans who are often confused anyhow.


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