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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:37pm
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Cool From IAABO Dec. 2011 Newsletter:

Team control during throw-in summary - Play # 9

"A1 has the ball for a throw-in. The throw-in pass deflects off of A2. As A2 and B2 are attempting to retrieve the loose throw-in pass, A2 illegally pushes B2 from behind and a foul is ruled. Team B is in the bonus. RULING: Team A is in control during this throw-in, therefore a team control foul has been committed. Team B is awarded a throw-in at the spot nearest to where the foul occurred."

Anyone here think this is actually correct?
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:40pm
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It is correct.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
It is correct.
Disagree. When is Team A in control?
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Padgett View Post
Do you think the throw-in ended when A2 touched the ball and since there was no subsequent player control before the foul, it's not a team control foul?
Yes.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
Disagree. When is Team A in control?
Did you miss the NFHS rule change for this year that says a team is in control of the ball when the ball is at its disposal for a throw-in?
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:48pm
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I assume his point is that the throw-in is now over, and team control has otherwise not been established.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I assume his point is that the throw-in is now over, and team control has otherwise not been established.
Except team control continues until the ball is dead, there's a try, or the other team gains possession of the ball.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Did you miss the NFHS rule change for this year that says a team is in control of the ball when the ball is at its disposal for a throw-in?
APG - It's the same reason the NCAA-M (@ Michigan State?) play you posted video of earlier this season was discussed and ruled an IW instead of the backcourt violation that was originally whistled by the trail.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
It is correct.
Agreed.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 06:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
APG - It's the same reason the NCAA-M (@ Michigan State?) play you posted video of earlier this season was discussed and ruled an IW instead of the backcourt violation that was originally whistled by the trail.
No, that play wasn't a backcourt violation because the NCAA rule specifically allows a player to cause the ball to go into the backcourt if player control hasn't first been established even though the throw-in ended. That play has nothing to do with your play (which is an NFHS case book play).

The reason this is a team control foul is because team A is considered in control when the ball is at their disposal for the throw-in...while the throw-in ended, team control continues until there's a try/tap, the ball becomes dead, or the other team secures possession of the ball. The throw-in ending has nothing to do with how you adjudicate this play.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 07:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
APG - It's the same reason the NCAA-M (@ Michigan State?) play you posted video of earlier this season was discussed and ruled an IW instead of the backcourt violation that was originally whistled by the trail.
It's the difference between Player Control, Player Control Inbounds and Team Control.

It's also the difference between BC violations and TC fouls (and the requirements for each).

edit: or what APG said.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 07:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Except team control continues until the ball is dead, there's a try, or the other team gains possession of the ball.
Didn't say it was a good point.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 07:17pm
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Red face Soooo

Is this play wrong, then? And why am I on the strugglebus about this tonight?

Play # 5: "A1 has the ball for an endline throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1's pass to A2, who is standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2's hand and goes into the backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in A's backcourt. RULING: Legal. There is no violation since player and team control had not been established in team A's frontcourt before the ball went into Team A's backcourt."

Last edited by HawkeyeCubP; Mon Dec 26, 2011 at 07:21pm.
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Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 07:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
Is this play wrong, then? And why am I on the strugglebus about this tonight?

Play # 5: "A1 has the ball for an endline throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1's pass to A2, who is standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2's hand and goes into the backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in A's backcourt. RULING: Legal. There is no violation since player and team control had not been established in team A's backcourt becore the ball went into Team A's backcourt."
Player and team control in frontcourt necessary for a violation.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 26, 2011, 07:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP View Post
Is this play wrong, then? And why am I on the strugglebus about this tonight?

Play # 5: "A1 has the ball for an endline throw-in in his/her frontcourt. A1's pass to A2, who is standing near the division line, is high and deflects off A2's hand and goes into the backcourt. A2 is then the first to control the ball in A's backcourt. RULING: Legal. There is no violation sinxe ayer and team control had not been established in team A's backcourt becore the ball went into Team A's backcourt."
Here's how you need to view team control during throw-ins...it only affects fouls by the throw-in team...we handle EVERYTHING else the exact same.

In the play above, because player control had not been established first, there is no backcourt violation (as well as 3 second violations or 10 second violations).
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Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

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