PCF or no-call?

[rfp]

Varsity boys scrimmage. A1 drives the lane and plows into B1 who has established legal guarding position. A1 goes down in a heap. B1, built like a truck, doesn't even budge. I'm prepared to call a PCF, but hold off when B1 doesn't move an inch. If he'd been displaced at all, it was a no-brainer PCF.

So I'm torn between two contradictory guidelines in this sitch: 1) train wreck in the paint should get a whistle and 2) no displacement of the defender = no advantage = no call.

Coach asked about the no-call and I explained my position, but what say you?

[HawkeyeCubP]

I agree with most train wrecks in the paint philosophy, but in my mind, there needs to be more than one car down to meet the definition of one. And 4-19-1 supports a no-call in cases like this, IMO, regarding the player being illegally contacted not being put at a disadvantage by the actions of the other player.

[SNIPERBBB]

Unless the contact stunned the defender so that he couldn't make a follow up play...play on unless A1 ended up traveling.

[grunewar]

When I discuss this in my clinics, I refer to this as the Spud Webb/Shaq collision. What ya got? No matter how bad it looks, sometimes it's nothing.....what advantage was gained?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by grunewar

When I discuss this in my clinics, I refer to this as the Spud Webb/Shaq collision. What ya got? No matter how bad it looks, sometimes it's nothing.....what advantage was gained?

Good way to look at it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by grunewar

When I discuss this in my clinics, I refer to this as the Spud Webb/Shaq collision. What ya got? No matter how bad it looks, sometimes it's nothing.....what advantage was gained?

Do your younger guys know who that is?

[SNIPERBBB]

Don't remember him but I do remember muggsey bogues.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Do your younger guys know who that is?

The adults do.

But, to demonstrate my point, I take the shortest kid and the largest adult and put them at either end of the classroom and I tell the adult to stand there. Then I tell the young man to run as fast as he can right at the adult. He usually looks at me and gives me the "seriously?" look.

I then discuss the play and ask them what do ya got? It get my point across of LGP, charge, block and inadvertent contact.

Creates a good discussion.

PS - I stop the young boy long before the collision.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by grunewar

When I discuss this in my clinics, I refer to this as the Spud Webb/Shaq collision. What ya got? No matter how bad it looks, sometimes it's nothing.....what advantage was gained?

That's fine for NBE. But if a shot went up, I've got a foul: I don't want A to score after that contact, and I don't want anyone stepping on the kid if there's rebounding.

[fiasco]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's fine for NBE. But if a shot went up, I've got a foul: I don't want A to score after that contact, and I don't want anyone stepping on the kid if there's rebounding.

What does you wanting or not wanting A to score have anything to do with contact that occurs??

[APG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

That's fine for NBE. But if a shot went up, I've got a foul: I don't want A to score after that contact, and I don't want anyone stepping on the kid if there's rebounding.

I've got to disagree...that isn't a foul in an NBA, NCAA, or high school game IMO.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Spud Webb/Shaq collision.

Man. Are you showing your age.

[APG]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Man. Are you showing your age.

I am much younger than most people on this board, and everyone I know that follows basketball knows about Spud Webb and most definitely about Shaq.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by rfp

A1 drives the lane and plows into B1 who has established legal guarding position. A1 goes down in a heap. B1, built like a truck, doesn't even budge.

Man. I hate it when you get a real good look at the defense, have them in a legal position, then they get smacked into by the dribbler, hard, you sound the whistle to call the easiest player control foul you've ever called, sell the call with the best player control foul signal you've ever signaled, and the defender doesn't go down. Been there. Done that. More than once, or twice, in thirty-one years.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rfp

Varsity boys scrimmage. A1 drives the lane and plows into B1 who has established legal guarding position. A1 goes down in a heap. B1, built like a truck, doesn't even budge. I'm prepared to call a PCF, but hold off when B1 doesn't move an inch. If he'd been displaced at all, it was a no-brainer PCF.

So I'm torn between two contradictory guidelines in this sitch: 1) train wreck in the paint should get a whistle and 2) no displacement of the defender = no advantage = no call.

Coach asked about the no-call and I explained my position, but what say you?

Years ago I had a girls' 7th grade game where A1 (her team's PG and barely 4'-06" tall) does a spin move against B1 and when she spins she slams into B2 (about 5-'10" tall and about 165 lbm), she manages to hold onto the ball as she falls to the floor. Everybody and screaming for a foul against B2 and all I have is traveling by A1.

MTD, Sr.