Elbow out of primary

[wyo96]

BV, 3 man crew. Game is in control, 3 qtr, A up by 15.

I was L, ball is high on C's side, A1 has used his dribble and is under pressure from B1.
A1 is moving his torso to keep the ball away, and in my opionion, "not exceessily" swing his elbows.

As I am looking thru the lane from L to C, I see B1 flinch and hold his face as A1 elbows apprears to contact B1. C got straightlined and said after the game he did not see the contact.

From L, I am 100% sure there was "contact" but cannot tell if it was just a brush by A1 and B1 over reacted, or if it was solid. Way out of my area, but a possible elbow to the face. I did not do anything, but got to thinking afterword, that a whistle may have been correct. Do you reach that far to get it? Non-basketball play? Again, not excessive swinging from my angle.

Should C have a whistle without seeing the contact?

Thoughts?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by wyo96

From L, I am 100% sure there was "contact" but cannot tell if it was just a brush by A1 and B1 over reacted, or if it was solid.

So, based on this line, if you blow your whistle, what are you going to say to the coach if he asks?

Well, coach I couldn't really tell if it was a brush or solid contact, but I thought he got him so I called a foul.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by wyo96

From L, I am 100% sure there was "contact" but cannot tell if it was just a brush by A1 and B1 over reacted, or if it was solid.

That's a contradiction if I ever read one.

If you were truly 100% sure there was contact, then you would have seen the contact and you would know if it was a brush or if it was solid.

As it is, you're just guessing.

[wyo96]

I know that how it looks when I write it down, but I am 100% sure there was some contact. Because I would have had to guess as to how much, was why I passed.

What if I saw solid contact? Do you reach for the call then?

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's a contradiction if I ever read one.

If you were truly 100% sure there was contact, then you would have seen the contact and you would know if it was a brush or if it was solid.

As it is, you're just guessing.

[BktBallRef]

Again, the only way you can be 100% certain is if you saw it. If you saw it, you should know whether it was glancing or solid. Sorry but it sounds to me like you didn't see and you're just assuming from B1's reaction.

To answer your question, if I see it, I go get it.

[Nevadaref]

You can't call what you didn't see. You may know that contact occurred, but you don't know if it was legal or illegal. So let me give you some advice to see if I can help prevent this from happening to you again.

When the ball handler has used his dribble and is now holding the ball and pivoting in the C's primary, the Lead needs to rotate!

Had you gone strong side instead of staying and looking through the lane, you would likely have had a much better angle to see the play and also been much closer to the action which would have allowed you to feel less awkward about making a help call for your partner, if that were necessary.

Bottom line: ROTATE in such situations. It will put both you and the C in better positions. The C will slide higher after the L moves, and now look down through the action and you will be able to look outward with a perpendicular view of the players. This should prevent both of you from being straight-lined.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You can't call what you didn't see. You may know that contact occurred, but you don't know if it was legal or illegal. So let me give you some advice to see if I can help prevent this from happening to you again.

When the ball handler has used his dribble and is now holding the ball and pivoting in the C's primary, the Lead needs to rotate!

Had you gone strong side instead of staying and looking through the lane, you would likely have had a much better angle to see the play and also been much closer to the action which would have allowed you to feel less awkward about making a help call for your partner, if that were necessary.

Bottom line: ROTATE in such situations. It will put both you and the C in better positions. The C will slide higher after the L moves, and now look down through the action and you will be able to look outward with a perpendicular view of the players. This should prevent both of you from being straight-lined.

Beat me to it. My first thought was "why are you looking at the play from the opposite side of the lane?"

You either have players to officiate in the paint (who may also be throwing elbows) or you don't and you need to rotate to help out the C with the strong side play.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

When the ball handler has used his dribble and is now holding the ball and pivoting in the C's primary, the Lead needs to rotate!

Had you gone strong side instead of staying and looking through the lane, you would likely have had a much better angle to see the play and also been much closer to the action which would have allowed you to feel less awkward about making a help call for your partner, if that were necessary.

Bottom line: ROTATE in such situations. It will put both you and the C in better positions. The C will slide higher after the L moves, and now look down through the action and you will be able to look outward with a perpendicular view of the players. This should prevent both of you from being straight-lined.

+1
Instead of waiting/hoping for the L to flex strong-side, the C should go where he needs to go to get the A look.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Beat me to it. My first thought was "why are you looking at the play from the opposite side of the lane?"

You either have players to officiate in the paint (who may also be throwing elbows) or you don't and you need to rotate to help out the C with the strong side play.

Absolutely! If you're ball watching across the paint, may as well get over there. Let your feet follow your eyes!

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Beat me to it. My first thought was "why are you looking at the play from the opposite side of the lane?"

You either have players to officiate in the paint (who may also be throwing elbows) or you don't and you need to rotate to help out the C with the strong side play.

Also first thing I thought......rotate, rotate, rotate

[refiator]

One rule to go by...If you think it happened, it probably didn't.
In this case, it sounds like you did the right thing by passing. You don't want to reach into the C's primary only to find that B1 duped you.