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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 17, 2011, 10:20pm
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Slide = Not travelling

So had a MS game the other night. Partner called a travel on a player who slid about 5 feet after gaining possession of a loose ball on the floor. (He went to the floor first, then gained possession while still sliding.) My partner called a travel before he had even stopped sliding. I thought about saying something to him, but I did not. I was the T table side. I was near the coach of the team called for the travel. He and most of the gym was not happy about the call.

I had a feeling I was right about the "momentum" rule. (Just double checked my rule/case book) A player can recover the ball on the floor and allow his momentum to expire and not be called for a travel, but if he makes a second motion that is not a part of the initial slide, then it is a travel. (Sorry if the wording confuses some!)

What would you have done in this situation? I am one of the younger officials in my area but have been reffing for a few years now and this official is older than me, first time working with him, so I did not know how he would take me asking about the call.

Correct me if I am misinterpreting something here also.
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Old Sat Dec 17, 2011, 10:24pm
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I would have asked him later what he saw. Maybe, he saw something different.
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Old Sat Dec 17, 2011, 10:25pm
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You got the right rule, but your partner did not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by McMac View Post
What would you have done in this situation? I am one of the younger officials in my area but have been reffing for a few years now and this official is older than me, first time working with him, so I did not know how he would take me asking about the call.

Correct me if I am misinterpreting something here also.
The only thing I would have done is discussed in at halftime or after the game and then bring out the rulebook to verify. Other than that, during the game would have probably been the wrong time to debate it as you never know what his exact reasoning might have been to make that call.

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Old Sat Dec 17, 2011, 10:28pm
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This is one of those situations where you let your partner take the heat for an incorrect call. There is nothing you can do to better the situation by trying to explain a rule to him on a violation like that. You can talk to him in private about it at half or a point later on during the season, but you may not get a positive response. You now know that the call was incorrect, so use that knowldge to help you recognize similar plays in the future so that you do not repeat his mistake.
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Old Sat Dec 17, 2011, 10:42pm
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FWIW, I had something similar today.

Loose ball, bodies flying to the ground. V-1 is on his back, has the ball, then goes to his knees. My partner calls the travel.

That's how he saw it. Meanwhile, I'm not entirely sure V-1 had control the ball, so I wouldn't have had a travel. I asked about it at halftime, and he told me what he saw. We even discussed the play with another batch of officials after the game, within our locker room confines.

Some of the finer veterans here could answer this better, but I'd guess it would be a rare occassion where you'd question that one on the floor.
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 12:27am
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You have to bring this up to him/her at some point. This is a non-violation that is called a violation by officials who need to know what the rule says.
Let them know that momentum cannot be called a travel. If they disagree, they will pay the price at some point.
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 01:11am
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Well, we had one of these today. Kid dives for a loose ball, corrals it mid-slide, and slides a good distance after. We had a foul shortly thereafter, so two of us ended up explaining the same thing to him. The coach told my partner he disagreed with him, but when I said the exact same thing when he asked, he said nothing.
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 09:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McMac View Post
If he makes a second motion that is not a part of the initial slide, then it is a travel.
You sure? Some of us aren't.

Did I drop kick one?
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:09am
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Case In Point ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
During the game would have probably been the wrong time to debate it as you never know what his exact reasoning might have been to make that call.
While this may be true 95% of the time, it really depends on the level of the game, and the degree of rapport between partners.

Yesterday. Catholic middle school junior varsity game. From the lead position, I see, what I believe, is a player attempting a shot from the opposite block, having the ball blocked before the ball leaving his hand, with me calling a held ball. I'm the closer official, but my partner, from the trail position, takes a couple of steps toward me and says quietly, "Did you get a good look at that?". I reply that I did, and we play on.

Next timeout, he comes over to me and we discuss the play. Although I was the closer official, I had the shooter, and his defender, between me and the ball. My partner was farther away, but he got a great look at the ball, and he saw it barely leave the shooter's hand, thus, just a blocked ball, not a held ball. We talked about how we could have fixed it, if we wanted to, and moved on.

I've worked dozens of games, both high school, and Catholic middle school, with this partner. He's a state high school tournament official. I value his opinion, and I know that he wasn't trying to show me up, or take over the game, he just wanted to make this a learning experience for both of us. I've got no problem with what he did.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 18, 2011 at 02:57pm.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:12pm
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Player dives for loose ball, gathers loose ball and momentum allos him to slide a few feet and then into a complete roll ... all in one motion. He comes to rest on his back with the ball secured.

You have anything?
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Player dives for loose ball, gathers loose ball and momentum allows him to slide a few feet and then into a complete roll ... all in one motion. He comes to rest on his back with the ball secured.

You have anything?
Just a thought. Momentum does not allow one to do anything. Momentum takes you there whether you like it or not.
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Just a thought. Momentum does not allow one to do anything. Momentum takes you there whether you like it or not.
Could a slide and a roll both be part of momentum? I would say yes. And no violation. Am I wrong? I know its a tough call, but believe I have seen it before.
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:42pm
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It says once you stop sliding you may not roll. It didn't say anything about rolling while youslide. 4.44.5 sit B
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Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 10:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo View Post
Could a slide and a roll both be part of momentum? I would say yes. And no violation. Am I wrong? I know its a tough call, but believe I have seen it before.
4.44.5B
Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 18, 2011, 11:01pm
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I have seen a player go into a dive for a ball and resulted in a roll, which was caused by the dive ... the momentum saw the player roll once and stop.
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