Charge, After Charge, After Charge

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Like I said, I'll try to look at them that way. I just don't like it when (to me anyway) it looks like such a disadvantage to offense and stops the game. I don't think the game was meant to be played that way...but that's just me. I'll keep an open mind about it.

The objective of the defense is to put the offense at a disadvantage.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How can an offensive player be put at a disadvantage when they control where they are going?

Peace

When they are dribbling the ball and a guy comes in at the last second and throws themselves in front where no player, even with extraordinary skills, could stop or change direction.

[letemplay]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The objective of the defense is to put the offense at a disadvantage.

This is true of course...and visa versa

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by letemplay

When they are dribbling the ball and a guy comes in at the last second and throws themselves in front where no player, even with extraordinary skills, could stop or change direction.

I thought the purpose of the defense was to get in the way of the offense and stop them from movement?

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by letemplay

When they are dribbling the ball and a guy comes in at the last second and throws themselves in front where no player, even with extraordinary skills, could stop or change direction.

If they were paying attention, they'd see the defender coming before the defender got to that spot. Often they do see the defender approaching and try to beat them....sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But, they do have the choice. It is not like the defender materialized out of thin air.

[letemplay]

to include defenders materializing out of thin air... and toe taps I'll have to continue this discussion later...gotta ball game to get to..thanks for the comments!

[MD Longhorn]

I believe I see more officials incorrectly calling it the way you sound like you want it to be called. LGP is really a lot easier than a lot of officials make it out to be. You've acknowledged that there's no "time" involved. You sound as though you think the defenders are just materializing from thin air and it's not fair to the offense. To the contrary - the offensive player can see the defender too - and if the defender can get to a spot before he can, he'd best not go there.

[ga314ref]

Originally Posted by letemplay

He gets his foot in front, but because the dribbler is of course, leaning forward, there is torso contact. Sometimes the offensive player even puts his off arm up as a reaction to the crash and it looks like a forearm hitting the defender. I guess this is a judgment play all the way, like many others during the game's course, but I'd like to think the rules makers allow that the defender get there. I think what I'm having trouble with is hearing many on here say that is ONCE LGP is obtained it's not lost..is that what some are saying? Doesn't the offensive player's established path play a part in determining if lgp has been reached?

...visualize your play. One thing to remember is if the offensive player get his head and shoulders past the defender, the greater responsibility for the contact is then on the defender, so the offensive player, if he can "beat" the defender gains an advantage.

Also, Rut (if I can call him that) is correct: if the official referees the defense, these are easier calls to make.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by letemplay

When they are dribbling the ball and a guy comes in at the last second and throws themselves in front where no player, even with extraordinary skills, could stop or change direction.

Well, then the defensive player should get credit for having extraordinary skill, don't you thiink?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ga314ref

Also, Rut (if I can call him that)

I have been called that all my life. No big deal.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ga314ref

Rut (if I can call him that) is correct.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have been called that all my life.

In a rut (Idiom): In a settled or established habit or course of action, especially a boring one.

[Rob1968]

I remember, several years ago, when the Fed changed the word "establish" to "obtain" in 4-23, because "establish" seemed to denote a process that could take an amount of time, in a guard trying to play defense against a ball-handler. Some thought that the defender was at a disadvantage, because contact with the ball-handler could come at different moments during the process.
So, as JRut and others have said, the moment of LGP being obtained allows us to make judgements on subsequent contact in a more uniform manner.
Two weeks ago, with a very good partner, we had seven PC calls in the first half, on team A, and two on team B. When the A coach commented on that fact, as we passed, at half time, I told him he must be pleased that his team was playing so aggressively. He didn't actually dispute whether the calls were correct. (His team was leading by double digits.)