Interesting Interpretation

[twocentsworth]

As I'm watching several girls grade-school travel basketball games on Sunday, the trail official calls an interesting backcourt violation. A game or so later, while watching my daughters' game, I ask him during a TO: "on that BC violation you called two games ago....what did you see?".

His repsonse: "By rule, you need to have 3 points in the frontcourt before you can have a BC violation. While the girl was dribbling upcourt, she had 1 foot in the front court, the other foot on the mid-court line, and she dribbled the ball on the mid-court line...that's 3 points....then she dribbled the ball in the backcourt. So that's a backcourt violation."....

huh?

[bob jenkins]

What was your response to him? (We, here, know that the division line is in the BC of each team, not the FC of each team.)

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What was your response to him? (We, here, know that the division line is in the BC of each team, not the FC of each team.)

exactly the same as you've described....he wanted to argue/disagree with me on that, however since it was during a TO, he conveniently blew his whistle to get the game going again - so we never really finished.....

in my experience, the situation is pretty typical of the officials that work these 5th, 6th, 7th, & 8th grade games.....(btw - it's the same officials each week...UGH!!!!).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

exactly the same as you've described....he wanted to argue/disagree with me on that, however since it was during a TO, he conveniently blew his whistle to get the game going again - so we never really finished.....

in my experience, the situation is pretty typical of the officials that work these 5th, 6th, 7th, & 8th grade games.....(btw - it's the same officials each week...UGH!!!!).

You get what you pay for. Please don't argue or try to correct these officials during the game. I have no problem asking what he saw, but once you get that jacked up explanation, you know enough to simply walk away. If you feel the need to address it, address it with the league director.

I watched an official in the game before mine go POI with a technical foul. I asked him about it between games, and he realized as soon as I asked him that he'd kicked it. Imagine, however, if I'd have approached him during a TO, looking like a regular fan. Nothing good ever comes from trying to correct an official during the game.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

girls grade-school travel basketball games

Enough said.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You get what you pay for. Please don't argue or try to correct these officials during the game. I have no problem asking what he saw, but once you get that jacked up explanation, you know enough to simply walk away. If you feel the need to address it, address it with the league director.

I watched an official in the game before mine go POI with a technical foul. I asked him about it between games, and he realized as soon as I asked him that he'd kicked it. Imagine, however, if I'd have approached him during a TO, looking like a regular fan. Nothing good ever comes from trying to correct an official during the game.

Could not agree more. Well said.

[derwil]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

His repsonse: "By rule, you need to have 3 points in the frontcourt before you can have a BC violation. While the girl was dribbling upcourt, she had 1 foot in the front court, the other foot on the mid-court line, and she dribbled the ball on the mid-court line...that's 3 points....then she dribbled the ball in the backcourt. So that's a backcourt violation."....

huh?

Did you laugh at him?

[twocentsworth]

ok...so let's imagine you are the "league director", and someone approaches you to explain how one of the ref's mis-applied a rule (a simple BC violation)....what are you going to do with that info................................(can u hear the crickects & birds chirping here?)...............nothing.

i am of the mindset that you "promote what you permit".

therefore, during a TO when the official was standing @ the scorers table attempting some idle chit-chat (as I was serving as the official scorer for my daughters game), i ASKED the question ("what did you see.....") about the play that didn't involve anyone i know or are related to......

clearly he doesn't know the rule. he will NEVER know the rule unless someone says something to him (it certainly won't be the "director" or whoever)....

it is my experience that the lower the level you go - NBA, NCAA, HS, etc. - the less likely officials are able to understand/apply the rules correctly AND the more sensitive they are to anyone pointing out rules-based errors (forget about judgement plays).

i.e. 2 weeks ago, when i informed the trail official that one team had 6 players on the floor (it occurred during a live ball because he didn't/couldn't hear the first four times i told him...), he seemed to be angry/upset with me. I later introduced myself to him and we struck up a cordial conversation.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

therefore, during a TO when the official was standing @ the scorers table attempting some idle chit-chat (as I was serving as the official scorer for my daughters game), i ASKED the question ("what did you see.....") about the play that didn't involve anyone i know or are related to......

Whatever your intentions were, your timing was awful. What did you hope to accomplish, as the scorekeeper of all things, by engaging the official on his rules knowledge during a completely different game than the one you were questioning? I don't really think your intentions were as noble as you claim, but that's just my take based on your overzealous need to "school" this guy, who is working grade school girls games. That's a pretty enormous leap from NBA, NCAA, and HS even (your analogy, not mine). He probably has never received any formal training, if he's received any training at all. He's likely doing it just for the money. All that said, the proper time to ask him if he'd like some feedback is after the game, after you have introduced yourself as a fellow official.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

ok...so let's imagine you are the "league director", and someone approaches you to explain how one of the ref's mis-applied a rule (a simple BC violation)....what are you going to do with that info................................(can u hear the crickects & birds chirping here?)...............nothing.

Why in the world would you come to that conclusion??? You're the league director and somebody points out to you that a particular ref misapplied a basic rule and you're not going to do ANYTHING with that info? Really??

If I'm that director, and the person is actually correct about the rule (which is far from a given) and its misapplication, I might very well make a phone call to the ref to ask him/her about the play and discuss the rule. Not to rake the ref over the coals, but to explain the actual rule. Are you saying that you wouldn't do this?

If you're that league director, which would you rather have happening: random strangers approaching your officials to tell them they screwed up the rule; or a 5 minute conversation with the official yourself?

Lastly, when I'm actually on the floor, there is virtually zero chance that I will have a positive interaction with a stranger who approaches me to tell me I screwed up a rule. If I were you, I would not make a habit of trying to "help" fellow refs while they're working the game.

[MD Longhorn]

Best remedy ... join the league as an official and educate from the inside.