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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 11, 2011, 02:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
+1. We can hope they treat it like the "swinging elbows" that was not called when it was a T, so they changed it to a violation.
Yet, they allow for a "swinging elbows" violation, by the shooter's teammate, to kill a shot - see 9.13.1, which seems terribly inconsistent.
So, if the teammate swings elbows and makes contact, the ball isn't dead until the attempt has ended, but if there's no contact, the ball is immediately dead, and cannot count. Weird!
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2011, 09:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Yet, they allow for a "swinging elbows" violation, by the shooter's teammate, to kill a shot - see 9.13.1, which seems terribly inconsistent.
So, if the teammate swings elbows and makes contact, the ball isn't dead until the attempt has ended, but if there's no contact, the ball is immediately dead, and cannot count. Weird!
That's a different issue, but I agree with you.
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2011, 10:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Yet, they allow for a "swinging elbows" violation, by the shooter's teammate, to kill a shot - see 9.13.1, which seems terribly inconsistent.
So, if the teammate swings elbows and makes contact, the ball isn't dead until the attempt has ended, but if there's no contact, the ball is immediately dead, and cannot count. Weird!
Just a like a violation by the offense during an AP throw-in will cause the arrow to change but a foul by the offense will not.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 03:49pm
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Dang, another rule I'm confused on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Just a like a violation by the offense during an AP throw-in will cause the arrow to change but a foul by the offense will not.
Can someone point me to where I can find this foul situation to be true. I thought the offense loses the arrow when they foul on an AP throwin?

Thanks
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 04:02pm
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Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 View Post
Can someone point me to where I can find this foul situation to be true. I thought the offense loses the arrow when they foul on an AP throwin?

Thanks
Look at the definition of a throw-in to see when it ends.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 04:14pm
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Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 View Post
Can someone point me to where I can find this foul situation to be true. I thought the offense loses the arrow when they foul on an AP throwin?

Thanks
6-4-5 is the citation.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 04:15pm
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Originally Posted by loudwhistle2 View Post
can someone point me to where i can find this foul situation to be true. I thought the offense loses the arrow when they foul on an ap throwin?
6-4-5
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 04:43pm
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
6-4-5
Thanks guys, blew that last year, not this year!
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 08:00pm
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Originally Posted by Loudwhistle2 View Post
Thanks guys, blew that last year, not this year!
Spoken like a true official.

Kind of like, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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Old Sun Dec 11, 2011, 10:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Yet, they allow for a "swinging elbows" violation, by the shooter's teammate, to kill a shot - see 9.13.1, which seems terribly inconsistent.
So, if the teammate swings elbows and makes contact, the ball isn't dead until the attempt has ended, but if there's no contact, the ball is immediately dead, and cannot count. Weird!
Wierd AND uncommon. I've yet to see a swinging elbows violation by a player that didn't have the ball.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 09:49am
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Originally Posted by BktBallRef View Post
Wierd AND uncommon. I've yet to see a swinging elbows violation by a player that didn't have the ball.
Nor have I. The inconsistency of the penalties, in seeming inverse proportion to the acts, is curious. It goes to the conversations ln the Forum regarding poor wording of rule changes.
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Old Mon Dec 12, 2011, 10:11am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Nor have I. The inconsistency of the penalties, in seeming inverse proportion to the acts, is curious. It goes to the conversations ln the Forum regarding poor wording of rule changes.
I'm guessing the reason the violation by a teammate of the shooter kills the shot is because if the shot goes in there would be no way to penalize the violation.

A foul by the shooter's teammate on the other hand comes with the penalty of one personal foul charged to the offender and possibly free throws for the offended team.
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Old Tue Dec 13, 2011, 12:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I'm guessing the reason the violation by a teammate of the shooter kills the shot is because if the shot goes in there would be no way to penalize the violation.
I'm looking for a parallel here. The only other "offensive" violations I can think of during a try for goal would be basket interference and goaltending. Both of those would kill a shot, so you'd have to same the same for all violations.
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Old Tue Dec 13, 2011, 12:19am
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I'm looking for a parallel here. The only other "offensive" violations I can think of during a try for goal would be basket interference and goaltending. Both of those would kill a shot, so you'd have to same the same for all violations.
Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.
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Old Tue Dec 13, 2011, 12:40am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.
Yep, that could kill a shot, too. So, why would elbow swinging be any different?
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