Designated spot Throw-in muffed??

[McMac]

We asked this question at our meeting on Monday night, sent it to one of our interps and this was his reply:

It is a violation for not throwing the ball directly onto the court. After the violation he can get a time out but the other team still gets the ball for a throw in.

Some officials in actuality will just give it back to him but that is not approved by the Federation.
Call the violation.

[Adam]

That's only true if it bounces OOB and then in bounds. Otherwise, your interpreter opens the door for calling a violation for bouncing (dribbling) the ball.

Also, your interpreter seems to want to call a violation even if the fumbled ball never leaves the three foot spot. I think that's wrong.

[bainsey]

It is a violation for not throwing the ball directly onto the court. After the violation he can get a time out but the other team still gets the ball for a throw in.

I spoke with an interpreter today, who said the same thing. The whole point of buying your way out of it with a time out is moot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I spoke with an interpreter today, who said the same thing. The whole point of buying your way out of it with a time out is moot.

It may be a violation, but it's not that one (necessarily).

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by bainsey

From where I sit, this OOB-control rule change creates a redundancy in 5-8-3a, which says a time out can be granted when the ball is either "at the disposal OR in control of a player of his/her team." Now, the former begats the latter, so you don't even need to mention "at disposal," do you?

If that rule were to be cleaned up and just said "in control of a player," that would settle this one. Fumble = no control = no time out. Until that day, I'd check your local listings.

Fumble = still in team control, according to 4-12-4....

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

Fumble = still in team control, according to 4-12-4....

5-8-3 How does "still in team control" enter into the issue of granting a time-out?

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

5-8-3 How does "still in team control" enter into the issue of granting a time-out?

5-8-3.a "grants a player a time out if the ball is in control of a player or his team." A fumbled ball or interrupted dribble is in team control and a timeout can be granted....

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Bishopcolle

5-8-3.a "grants a player a time out if the ball is in control of a player or his team." A fumbled ball or interrupted dribble is in team control and a timeout can be granted....

The correct word in 5-8-3a is of his team not or which makes a big difference. Timeouts cannot be granted during fumbles or interrupted dribbles. But on a throw-in if the fumbled ball remains OOB I believe the ball is still at that team's disposal and a timeout can be granted. Yes, no?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by billyu2

The correct word in 5-8-3a is of his team not or which makes a big difference. Timeouts cannot be granted during fumbles or interrupted dribbles. But on a throw-in if the fumbled ball remains OOB I believe the ball is still at that team's disposal and a timeout can be granted. Yes, no?

Thanks, billyu2

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Do you have a reference that suggests the ball is still at their disposal after a fumble?

Peace

The OP did not say that the ball entered the court. If it entered the court, it was just a poorly executed throw-in. If it did not, he still has 5 seconds, even if his arms are not long enough to throw it in legally by retrieving it without leaving the spot.

[SNIPERBBB]

Does this help anything?

5.8.3 SITUATION D:

A1 or A2 requests a time-out: (a) while airborne A1 is holding the ball; (b) while A1's throw-in is in flight toward A2; or (c) when the ball is on the floor at A1's disposal for a throw-in.

RULING: The request is granted in (a) and (c), but denied in (b), as there is no player control while the ball is loose between players.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Does this help anything?

No.

[Bishopcolle]

Originally Posted by billyu2

The correct word in 5-8-3a is of his team not or which makes a big difference. Timeouts cannot be granted during fumbles or interrupted dribbles. But on a throw-in if the fumbled ball remains OOB I believe the ball is still at that team's disposal and a timeout can be granted. Yes, no?

Billyu2...Thanks for the input...you are right...those words "or" and "of" make a difference...also, reading further, I see in the case book 5.8.3.F timeout not granted during an interrupted dribble....Thanks again for the clarification....