IPAD on the Bench

[CoachP]

Pretty sure if there are iPad's on the bench, "the school" did not buy it for the coach.

I admit, we have a tech advantage at our school. Only one scoreboard, and it's in our frontcourt for the second half.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Just started last week. Damn plyometrics had me sore for days!

Then you know what the hell I am talking about.

Originally Posted by bainsey

Here are some more realities: We're not talking about servers here. There are far more expensive things today that teams must deal with than handheld devices. And, schools must find a way to afford PCs in order to prepare our youth for the 21st century world. Since handheld devices are affordable for all, that argument of the haves and have-nots is simply antequated. I've dealt with very rural schools, and they're certainly not without technology.

An IPad cost right now about $500 or more based on the hard drive (can be nearly $850 in the right places). I personally cannot afford that now based on other bills and priorities in my life, you really think schools can afford multiple of these devices and be able to pay for fixing them or replacing them for either damage or theft.

I grew up in a rural area and went to a rural school. A lot of this depends on your state and population and financial situation of the state and districts. A lot of rural schools cannot afford a lot of things and have less money for athletics. We argue over what we are paid and if schools can afford a 3rd official and now we expect schools to compete in an activity that many have considered dropping all together because of expenses and we want to allow schools to use things based on a technology advantage? You act like all schools have similar resources which if you just look at the news that is extremely clear how there are the have or have nots in education in this country.

Originally Posted by bainsey

That's not hyperbole, Rut. That's truth. People fear change.

What does that have to do with what we are talking about? The NF changes rules every year and some drastic changes. This is not about change, this is about balance in competition. You will have an in-balance if you allow some schools to use technology and many host schools would provide things for their locker room and not the visiting locker room. This would be a bad idea and why I do not see a change anytime soon. And it is not about fear. If you can coach you can do so without a video for a 10 minute period.

Originally Posted by bainsey

The competition would only be unequal if one team was allowed to use a device, and the other team wasn't. Let the coaches decide what devices they want to use to do their jobs. One team almost always has advantages over another, and that's just life. This realm should be no different.

The school that can barely buy uniforms and provide adequate other equipment will not have to buy more devices to play a simple game. It is a sport, not a test of the have and have nots.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bainsey

...


That's not hyperbole, Rut. That's truth. People fear change.

....

No, that's called an opinion.

The rulesmakers have deemed certain electronic devices create an unfair advantage or don't belong in the game.

Doesn't mean people fear anything.

That's a mighty big leap in logic.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We argue over what we are paid and if schools can afford a 3rd official and now we expect schools to compete in an activity that many have considered dropping all together because of expenses and we want to allow schools to use things based on a technology advantage?

I want to allow schools and coaches the choice of using such devices. No-one says they have to.

Besides, you could be a better coach without such devices or a substandard coach with them. I may not need a clipboard or any other tool to coach. Ultimately, it should be up to the individuals using them.

The school that can barely buy uniforms and provide adequate other equipment will not have to buy more devices to play a simple game. It is a sport, not a test of the have and have nots.

Reality check, Rut: Often times, sports is indeed a test between the haves and have nots. Consistently, those towns with better youth programs result in more victories in middle and high school. Sports is a microcosm of life, and one thing that life teaches us is that it isn't always fair. (Just ask the kid upon whom you called that foul.) If you're saying that no-one should have something that some cannot afford, that's hardly preparing anyone for life.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I want to allow schools and coaches the choice of using such devices. No-one says they have to.

Besides, you could be a better coach without such devices or a substandard coach with them. I may not need a clipboard or any other tool to coach. Ultimately, it should be up to the individuals using them.

If those devices only were used to diagram plays then yes that would be one thing, but you can get text messages, video and talk to someone directly. This is more than diagramming a play. We have video capability for years and we do not allow the camera to be used at the bench and by rule you cannot use any video and review a play during the game. Also not everyone understands how to use those things so you will have another advantage based on technology and not coaching the sport. If that is the case why not allow shoes that make you jump higher too? That is technology, who has the best should be allowed too right?

Originally Posted by bainsey

Reality check, Rut: Often times, sports is indeed a test between the haves and have nots. Consistently, those towns with better youth programs result in more victories in middle and high school. Sports is a microcosm of life, and one thing that life teaches us is that it isn't always fair. (Just ask the kid upon whom you called that foul.) If you're saying that no-one should have something that some cannot afford, that's hardly preparing anyone for life.

Well the rules are created to make an equal playing field or court so that all participants can play with the same advantages and disadvantages. You make it only about technology, and then the game would not allow for that to take place. You can disagree all you like, but this is likely why the rule is in place and will not change. Now I could see some rules allowing for IPad to be used for scorekeeping or keeping records, but not to aid you in coaching or using video. And the same reason it is outlawed in other sports as well. Even in the pros they have rules as to how video can be used, but they have a standardized system that must be used, not every available technology is allowed. I think the Patriots in the NFL got in a little trouble as there was video to review signals, not the playing action. It is against the rules in MLB to use video to use or other devices to call steal signals other than someone on the field witnessing those signals. If the pros put limits on the use of technology used during and even before or after games, why should the NF lift their ban? Oh, because of life right?

Peace

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also not everyone understands how to use those things so you will have another advantage based on technology and not coaching the sport.

Who says the two can't go hand-in-hand? Besides, if one coach knows more about something than the other coach, then yes, that's life, too.

If the pros put limits on the use of technology used during and even before or after games, why should the NF lift their ban?

It's not often that the NF would look at the pros as a blueprint for anything. The pros, of course, address very specific areas that can and cannot be videoed, and those areas are far more detailed than I understand. Are there parallels? Probably. We'd have to look at what exactly those pro rules entail, as they rely on video more than high schools do to keep their jobs.

If that is the case why not allow shoes that make you jump higher too? That is technology, who has the best should be allowed too right?

I'd imagine rocket shoes would be nixed pretty quickly, based on safety issues alone.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Who says the two can't go hand-in-hand? Besides, if one coach knows more about something than the other coach, then yes, that's life, too.

OK, whatever.

Originally Posted by bainsey

It's not often that the NF would look at the pros as a blueprint for anything. The pros, of course, address very specific areas that can and cannot be videoed, and those areas are far more detailed than I understand. Are there parallels? Probably. We'd have to look at what exactly those pro rules entail, as they rely on video more than high schools do to keep their jobs.

And they have the financial wherewithal to implement that. HS sports are a little more pure and because school districts play against other school districts that might not have the same resources, this is why they are not allowed. Again, I am not asking you to agree, just giving my take as to why that is. And the NF has many more constituents than the NFL or NBA for example.

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'd imagine rocket shoes would be nixed pretty quickly, based on safety issues alone.

But if technology is allowed, why not allow them too?

Seriously there was a shoe that claimed to give players a boost in jumping ability, many states outlawed those shoes usage. My state informed us last year and outlawed that shoe.

We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. And life in many industries that have rules in place to make the field level. SEC rules, court rules and zoning laws are all examples of how rules are put in place to only allow certain things to go on in life or the not give one business an advantage over another.

Peace

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Seriously there was a shoe that claimed to give players a boost in jumping ability, many states outlawed those shoes usage.

Shoe companies have been claiming that since PF Flyers. If one actually did bring some serious height, again, the safety issues alone would necessitate a ban. No-one should advocate technology when it compromises safety.

SEC rules, court rules and zoning laws are all examples of how rules are put in place to only allow certain things to go on in life or the not give one business an advantage over another.

Partially true. Some of those rules I find to be unnecessary to, but let's leave that can closed.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Just started last week. Damn plyometrics had me sore for days!


Here are some more realities: We're not talking about servers here. There are far more expensive things today that teams must deal with than handheld devices. And, schools must find a way to afford PCs in order to prepare our youth for the 21st century world. Since handheld devices are affordable for all, that argument of the haves and have-nots is simply antequated. I've dealt with very rural schools, and they're certainly not without technology.


That's not hyperbole, Rut. That's truth. People fear change.


The competition would only be unequal if one team was allowed to use a device, and the other team wasn't. Let the coaches decide what devices they want to use to do their jobs. One team almost always has advantages over another, and that's just life. This realm should be no different.

Coaches do make the rules. Just sayin

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coaches do make the rules. Just sayin

You can't say that. People here get very upset because some guy that they once know that one time officiated is on the committee.

Peace

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coaches do make the rules. Just sayin

Hmmmm.....

"Hey coach, don't blame me. Your guys made the rules!"

[TimTaylor]

We got the word from our SRI tonight - Ipads are legal on the bench as long as they're only being used to keep statistics or as electronic white board.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

We got the word from our SRI tonight - Ipads are legal on the bench as long as they're only being used to keep statistics or as electronic white board.

I'm sure that the following is what your SRI received. I can't say why this ruling is being issued by Mary Struckhoff seeing that her resignation from the NFHS became effective on Sept. 30, 2011.
================================================== =====

Mary Struckhoff Announces Resignation from NFHS Staff

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Contact: Bruce Howard

INDIANAPOLIS, IN (August 5, 2011) — Mary Struckhoff, assistant director of the
National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) for the past 12 years, will
leave the NFHS staff, effective September 30, to pursue other interests in athletics and

officiating.
================================================== ==============


From: Mary Struckhoff
To: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Monday, December 05, 2011
Subject: RE: iPad use on the bench
*
10-2-3 definitely needs to be updated to keep up with technological advances, but a computer or iPad could be used for anything that paper could have done (stats, draw up plays, etc.). Basically, the only things they can’t be used for are electronic communication with players (speaking to them thru the device and a receiver) and video replay.
*
Yes, it’s difficult for officials to “police” what the devices are being used for, but most officials and state offices assume teams/coaches are in compliance unless proven otherwise. If you want to have a state-wide prohibition against these devices, that would be up to you. But they are permitted, with a few restrictions, by rule.
*
Hope that helps.
*
Mary

[constable]

Here is the interpretation from IAABO

INTERPRETATION / CLARIFICATION FROM IAABO
IAABO Executive Director Tom Lopes has confirmed that the use of an "I-Pad is not permissible."
This falls under rule 10, section 1, article 3 - "A team shall not use television monitoring or replay equipment or computers (other than for statistics) for coaching purposes during the game or any intermission..."

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by constable

Here is the interpretation from IAABO

INTERPRETATION / CLARIFICATION FROM IAABO
IAABO Executive Director Tom Lopes has confirmed that the use of an "I-Pad is not permissible."
This falls under rule 10, section 1, article 3 - "A team shall not use television monitoring or replay equipment or computers (other than for statistics) for coaching purposes during the game or any intermission..."

What is IAABO's authority?