Mechanics

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

Sorry I miss understood, you were meaning an offensive hook. I have no problem with that then. I signal it on the few times I have had this happen after giving a hold signal (bc that is what one assignor wants).

It does not have to be an offensive hook, sometimes the defense does this too when they front the post player. That being said I also sometimes give that signal at the table. I know you not supposed to do it, but it shuts everyone up.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's not a change in signal. You're just changing the name of the signal.

Right now there is no delayed call signal for disconcertion, or a player passing the three point arc too early. The present IAABO signal just covers a delayed call for a lane violation. Is this also true for the NFHS signal?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Right now there is no delayed call signal for disconcertion, or a player passing the three point arc too early. The present IAABO signal just covers a delayed call for a lane violation. Is this also true for the NFHS signal?

Signal #18 is for delayed lane violations. I know that might not technically be correct, but that is what the signal is clearly used for on plays you just stated it is not approved. That is semantics as these violations are clearly delayed.

Peace

[tref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would not mind if we could use these signals.

Fouls:
Hook/wrap
Trip (Same as kicked ball)
Knee
Excessive Contact (Intentional Foul)

Communication:
Tipped
Directional signal

Peace

I would like to see those additions as well. We should be able to supply detailed information... What's so terrible about that?

The basic hold signal for an off/def hook doesn't exactly tell the tale.

Do you all only use the approved forearm hit signal or do you show where the player was hit (elbow hit, arm/shoulder, etc)??

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Signal #18 is for delayed lane violations. I know that might not technically be correct, but that is what the signal is clearly used for on plays you just stated it is not approved. That is semantics as these violations are clearly delayed.

I believe that the NCAA has the “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle” signal, why can't the NFHS, or IAABO? Technically, a player disconcerting, or a player breaking the plane of the three point arc, is not violating the "lane".

[BktBallRef]

Signal 18 is approved to cover all those situations. It's not necessary to list every single usage in the signal table.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by tref

Do you all only use the approved forearm hit signal or do you show where the player was hit (elbow hit, arm/shoulder, etc)??

The former. Billy's "Land of Steady Habits" also exists here in the northeast corner. Our signals are by the book, though I like some of Rut's suggestions.

Ultimately, signals are about communication with everyone in the gym. If the current lot doesn't get the job done effectively, I see no problem in lobbying for a few more.

I signaled a tripping foul in a soccer game I did last week (even though such signals are optional in soccer). No way could I do such a thing in basketball, so it felt pretty good (although I'm sure the tripped player might disagree).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Signal 18 is approved to cover all those situations. It's not necessary to list every single usage in the signal table.

Agree in practice, but how about a citation? Why does the NCAA signal cover all delayed violations, whereas, the NFHS, and IAABO signals, only seem to cover, as written, one specific violation?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree in practice, but how about a citation? Why does the NCAA signal cover all delayed violations, whereas, the NFHS, and IAABO signals, only seem to cover one specific violation?

You really need all situations to be covered in detail? I am sure it is a clerical issue more than anything......seriously!!!

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am sure it is a clerical issue more than anything.

And I agree 100% with your statement. Which means that this should be very easy for the NFHS, or IAABO, to fix. How hard would it be to change “Delayed Lane Violation” to “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle”?

I recently served on my local board's training committee, and had a rookie official ask me if it was necessary to give a signal for disconcertion. I pointed him to the IAABO mechanics manual to discover that there was no such signal, by the book, so he should just use the “Delayed Lane Violation” signal, as all of us have been doing for more than twenty-five years. That's when I discovered this odd "error". It should be an easy fix.

[JRutledge]

Billy,

With all due respect I have never heard anyone claim this was an issue but you. I do not think it matters what they call it, the signal is obviously used for FT delay situations and all of them that apply. Why you need it spelled out in the chart in detail is really beyond me.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why you need it spelled out in the chart in detail is really beyond me.

Hey. I'm a details kind of guy. I'm an environmental chemist by trade. I have to be this way, or people may drink contaminated water, and then they get sick, possibly die, and then I get fired.

The lack of a disconcertion signal in the IAABO manual confused a rookie, I noted that "oversight" in the IAABO manual, and it can be easily fixed.

My local interpreter will discuss this in a few weeks at the IAABO Fall Seminar. If IAABO International feels the same way as JRutledge does, and doesn't see the need for a change, then my interpreter may bring it up to our state interpreter, who may "approve" it for use in Connecticut, like the “Shooter Has Foot Touching Three Point Line” signal that we already use in Connecticut, even though it's not approved by IAABO.

Was the NCAA signal ever labeled, “Delayed Lane Violation”, and then changed, or has it always been labeled, “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle”?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Hey. I'm a details kind of guy. I'm an environmental chemist by trade. I have to be this way, or people may drink contaminated water, and then they get sick, possibly die, and then I get fired.

The lack of a disconcertion signal in the IAABO manual confused a rookie, I noted that "oversight" in the IAABO manual, and it can be easily fixed.

My local interpreter will discuss this in a few weeks at the IAABO Fall Seminar. If IAABO International feels the same way as JRutledge does, and doesn't see the need for a change, then my interpreter may bring it up to our state interpreter, who may "approve" it for use in Connecticut, like the “Shooter Has Foot Touching Three Point Line” signal that we already use in Connecticut, even though it's not approved by IAABO.

Was the NCAA signal ever labeled, “Delayed Lane Violation”, and then changed, or has it always been labeled, “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle”?

You tell the rookie that the signal is the same for all of those types of situations and move on. Rookies ask a lot of question about things that are irrelevant in the bigger picture. They do not know any better and this should not surprise you. And if a rookie cannot figure out that not every level has the same signals or wording for the signal, then they really need to get over it soon. There are bigger fish to fry and who cares what the signal is actually called if the same result takes place?

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Good grief.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Good grief.