Mechanics

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
I know more about cardiothoracic surgery than I do about NCAA mechanics, but don't NCAA-W mechanics allow such a signal?

Both sides do.

Peace

tref

JRutledge wrote
Both sides do.

Peace

Yup & hopefully HS will pick it up soon! I've used it as a preliminary (when needed) but I use the approved signal at the table while vocalizing the hit to the head.

Funny how people are so against The League, but the things they do are eventually picked up at other levels 🙄

JRutledge

tref wrote
Yup & hopefully HS will pick it up soon! I've used it as a preliminary (when needed) but I use the approved signal at the table while vocalizing the hit to the head.

Funny how people are so against The League, but the things they do are eventually picked up at other levels :rolleyes:

I wish the NF would pick up other signals rather than this one. There are others that are better to describe a foul. Hit to the head is minimal issue to me.

Peace

BillyMac

Here are some non approved signals that we are considering here in IAABO Connecticut:

Change “Delayed Lane Violation” to “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle” to allow for delayed free throw violations that do not involve a lane violation, i.e. disconcertion, or three point arc violation.

Add supplemental “Intentional Foul: Excessive Contact” signal.

Add “Shooter Has Foot Touching Three Point Line” signal. We already use this signal in Connecticut, but it's not approved by IAABO.

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
I wish the NF would pick up other signals rather than this one.

Examples ???

BktBallRef

BillyMac wrote
Here are some non approved signals that we are considering here in IAABO Connecticut:

Change “Delayed Lane Violation” to “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle” to allow for delayed free throw violations that do not involve a lane violation, i.e. disconcertion, or three point arc violation.

That's not a change in signal. You're just changing the name of the signal.

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
Examples ???

I would not mind if we could use these signals.

Fouls:
Hook/wrap
Trip (Same as kicked ball)
Knee
Excessive Contact (Intentional Foul)

Communication:
Tipped
Directional signal

Peace

NCHSAA

JRutledge wrote
I would not mind if we could use these signals.

Fouls:
Hook/wrap
Trip (Same as kicked ball)
Knee
Excessive Contact (Intentional Foul)

Communication:
Tipped
Directional signal

Peace

I wouldn't mind the trip, tipped, and directional signal. The hook/wrap IMO is a hold and can be signaled accordingly. The knee, maybe. But I don't want to look like the Karate Kid and his crow kick or whatever it is called when I make the signal.

JRutledge

NCHSAA wrote
I wouldn't mind the trip, tipped, and directional signal. The hook/wrap IMO is a hold and can be signaled accordingly. The knee, maybe. But I don't want to look like the Karate Kid and his crow kick or whatever it is called when I make the signal.

The hook is the main one I would want because that happens often in the post and when called no one seems to understand how a hold took place with someone's behind them. I think it is a better description of that particular foul. The others might not be used hardly at all, but when they happen I have no idea sometimes what to signal in the heat of the moment.

Peace

NCHSAA

JRutledge wrote
The hook is the main one I would want because that happens often in the post and when called no one seems to understand how a hold took place with someone's behind them. I think it is a better description of that particular foul. The others might not be used hardly at all, but when they happen I have no idea sometimes what to signal in the heat of the moment.

Peace

Sorry I miss understood, you were meaning an offensive hook. I have no problem with that then. I signal it on the few times I have had this happen after giving a hold signal (bc that is what one assignor wants).

JRutledge

NCHSAA wrote
Sorry I miss understood, you were meaning an offensive hook. I have no problem with that then. I signal it on the few times I have had this happen after giving a hold signal (bc that is what one assignor wants).

It does not have to be an offensive hook, sometimes the defense does this too when they front the post player. That being said I also sometimes give that signal at the table. I know you not supposed to do it, but it shuts everyone up.

Peace

BillyMac

BktBallRef wrote
That's not a change in signal. You're just changing the name of the signal.

Right now there is no delayed call signal for disconcertion, or a player passing the three point arc too early. The present IAABO signal just covers a delayed call for a lane violation. Is this also true for the NFHS signal?

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
Right now there is no delayed call signal for disconcertion, or a player passing the three point arc too early. The present IAABO signal just covers a delayed call for a lane violation. Is this also true for the NFHS signal?

Signal #18 is for delayed lane violations. I know that might not technically be correct, but that is what the signal is clearly used for on plays you just stated it is not approved. That is semantics as these violations are clearly delayed.

Peace

tref

JRutledge wrote
I would not mind if we could use these signals.

Fouls:
Hook/wrap
Trip (Same as kicked ball)
Knee
Excessive Contact (Intentional Foul)

Communication:
Tipped
Directional signal

Peace

I would like to see those additions as well. We should be able to supply detailed information... What's so terrible about that?

The basic hold signal for an off/def hook doesn't exactly tell the tale.

Do you all only use the approved forearm hit signal or do you show where the player was hit (elbow hit, arm/shoulder, etc)??

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
Signal #18 is for delayed lane violations. I know that might not technically be correct, but that is what the signal is clearly used for on plays you just stated it is not approved. That is semantics as these violations are clearly delayed.

I believe that the NCAA has the “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle” signal, why can't the NFHS, or IAABO? Technically, a player disconcerting, or a player breaking the plane of the three point arc, is not violating the "lane".

BktBallRef

Signal 18 is approved to cover all those situations. It's not necessary to list every single usage in the signal table.

bainsey

tref wrote
Do you all only use the approved forearm hit signal or do you show where the player was hit (elbow hit, arm/shoulder, etc)??

The former. Billy's "Land of Steady Habits" also exists here in the northeast corner. Our signals are by the book, though I like some of Rut's suggestions.

Ultimately, signals are about communication with everyone in the gym. If the current lot doesn't get the job done effectively, I see no problem in lobbying for a few more.

I signaled a tripping foul in a soccer game I did last week (even though such signals are optional in soccer). No way could I do such a thing in basketball, so it felt pretty good (although I'm sure the tripped player might disagree).

BillyMac

BktBallRef wrote
Signal 18 is approved to cover all those situations. It's not necessary to list every single usage in the signal table.

Agree in practice, but how about a citation? Why does the NCAA signal cover all delayed violations, whereas, the NFHS, and IAABO signals, only seem to cover, as written, one specific violation?

JRutledge

BillyMac wrote
Agree in practice, but how about a citation? Why does the NCAA signal cover all delayed violations, whereas, the NFHS, and IAABO signals, only seem to cover one specific violation?

You really need all situations to be covered in detail? I am sure it is a clerical issue more than anything......seriously!!!

Peace

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
I am sure it is a clerical issue more than anything.

And I agree 100% with your statement. Which means that this should be very easy for the NFHS, or IAABO, to fix. How hard would it be to change “Delayed Lane Violation” to “Delayed Dead Ball: Withheld Whistle”?

I recently served on my local board's training committee, and had a rookie official ask me if it was necessary to give a signal for disconcertion. I pointed him to the IAABO mechanics manual to discover that there was no such signal, by the book, so he should just use the “Delayed Lane Violation” signal, as all of us have been doing for more than twenty-five years. That's when I discovered this odd "error". It should be an easy fix.