You Make The Call

[BLydic]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

Contact maybe marginal but two playrs going to the floor like this probably deserves a call, the defense was not great and the contact changed shot... I think I'd make it a block

+1 without a doubt

[Raymond]

For those calling a PC foul please explain what contact A1 made to B1 to earn such a call.

[tref]

Yes please! IMO, A didn't go to, let alone through the defender.

[Adam]

B1 has lgp. A1 jumps and his hip hits B1's shoulder, knocking both to the floor. I'll defer to the guy with the best view of the actual contact and assume the contact was enough for a foul. I'm with MTD, Sr., on this one.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

B1 has lgp. A1 jumps and his hip hits B1's shoulder, knocking both to the floor. I'll defer to the guy with the best view of the actual contact and assume the contact was enough for a foul. I'm with MTD, Sr., on this one.

Snaqs, I don't see that contact. I see B1's upper torso already falling back (away from A1's hip) and A1's foot making contact with B1's thigh/knee. And B1's legs are outside his natural base. If A1 were attempting to dribble around B1 and contact was made between B1's knee and A1's leg that's something that all of us have called a block.

[Adam]

The first angle isn't good for this play, and on the second angle, A1's body blocks the camera view from seeing any concact or space, whichever the case may be, on B1's shoulder. I honestly don't think the camera gives us enough information to decide one way or the other.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The first angle isn't good for this play, and on the second angle, A1's body blocks the camera view from seeing any concact or space, whichever the case may be, on B1's shoulder. I honestly don't think the camera gives us enough information to decide one way or the other.

I think the angles we're given are sufficient to make a call either way. I don't think the defender had a LGP, but even if he did, there wasn't IMO, close to enough contact to call a charge.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

B1 has lgp. A1 jumps and his hip hits B1's shoulder, knocking both to the floor. I'll defer to the guy with the best view of the actual contact and assume the contact was enough for a foul. I'm with MTD, Sr., on this one.

In fact B1 never obtain legal guarding position.
NFHS Rule 4-23-2.
To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
A. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
B. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.
This can be seen at the start of video.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

In fact B1 never obtain legal guarding position.
NFHS Rule 4-23-2.
To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
A. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
B. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.
This can be seen at the start of video.

At :02 and :11 seconds (the picture is much clearer at :11), you can see B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor. A1's foot is still on the floor prior to his takeoff. He does have LGP. His problem is, it doesn't allow him to lean his shoulder to the right to force contact.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

At :02 and :11 seconds (the picture is much clearer at :11), you can see B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor. A1's foot is still on the floor prior to his takeoff. He does have LGP. His problem is, it doesn't allow him to lean his shoulder to the right to force contact.

By that time (:11) B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor he is late, he did not met the requirements under rule 4-23-2
At :02 B1 is just in the lane, and by the time :11 A1 had already started his shot. BLOCK on B1

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

By that time (:11) B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor he is late, he did not met the requirements under rule 4-23-2
At :02 B1 is just in the lane, and by the time :11 A1 had already started his shot. BLOCK on B1

Why do you keep bringing up "started his shot"? It has nothing to do with the play.

It's a block in this play b/c of the unnatural width of B1's stance which is what caused the contact between B1's leg and A1's foot.

BTW, I just realized I know the calling official in this video. I'm gonna have to ask him about this play when I see him this fall.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

By that time (:11) B1 facing A1 with both feet on the floor he is late, he did not met the requirements under rule 4-23-2
At :02 B1 is just in the lane, and by the time :11 A1 had already started his shot. BLOCK on B1

Again the applicable rule is 4-23-4b. Also, you stated he never obtained LGP, when in fact he did. He got it, at the latest, right before A1 took off. His problem is that LGP does not allow him to lean sideways into contact, which he did, thus earning the block. Had he not leaned and still been run over, the timing was in his favor.

[NoFear2020]

In slow motion we can see that at about 0:10 the offensives player has gathered the ball which is the start of the habitual shooting motion and the defensive player is still moving. Block!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

In slow motion we can see that at about 0:10 the offensives player has gathered the ball which is the start of the habitual shooting motion and the defensive player is still moving.

Be careful here. Don't confuse continuous motion with airborne shooter. They may not be the same in all cases.

[tref]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

In slow motion we can see that at about 0:10 the offensives player has gathered the ball which is the start of the habitual shooting motion and the defensive player is still moving. Block!

The defender must have LGP before to the offense alights, not prior to the gather.


FTR, I had a block on the 1st angle (Ts view), the 2nd angle (L view) supported a block even more. I thought the defender was going to do a split. As others have said, if it were a screen or a drive by situation we would all have a block here.