You Make The Call

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I don't understand this mentality. Why isn't a flop simply a flop?

Yep. There's nothing illegal about a player falling backwards to absorb contact.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I don't understand this mentality. Why isn't a flop simply a flop?

When a flop doesnt result in any contact whatsoever, it obviously cannot be a block.

When a flop causes the airborne shooter to hit the deck, in order to do our job & protect the shooter, to me, its gotta be a block.

When 2 bodies are down & the defender laid down causing the shooter to go down... BLOCK.

In my experiences, calling a flop a block keeps players from flopping.
I've even heard coaches say to their players, "Play D & stay on your feet, they arent going for it tonight!"

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yep. There's nothing illegal about a player falling backwards to absorb contact.

Yep. They may also turn or duck when contact is immenent.
The bolded part is not only part of that rule, it is also missing from this equation. Sorta like the word intentional in a kicking violation.

[NoFear2020]

Originally Posted by tref

Absofreakinglutely, call it like it is Brad!

An important factor that hasn't been brought up is the team officiating concept. I think its safe to say that 80% of us say its not a p/c. The more important piece would be "why" was it ruled incorrectly??
I know in different parts of the country we have different philosophies on who gets first crack at block/charge plays. But staying connected to SDF plays that go to the rim at T/C would permit a great opportunity for a double whistle in this sitch! Would've been nice to see the T pop & maybe the two officials could've communicated & came out with the right call.

It all boils down to a detailed pregame... a flop is a block tonight, 2 opponents going down in the paint after the shot & before the shooter lands needs a whistle, double whistles on 2ndary defenders go to the L, etc.

Being likeminded is crucial here, perhaps the T was passing on the flop/block & the L has bodies on the floor in the paint so he feels obligated to put a whistle on it. IMO, the L never really picked up the 2ndary defender & goes with a p/c.

NoFear: There comes a time when we have to say we were wrong, learn from it & move on. You've been provided with ample rules & caseplays to support the difference between, when LGP must be obtained vs. continuous motion.

Thanks tref, I am here to learn. I understand LGP and continuous motion I am not using one over the other. I am using them together.
Aren’t they to be used but together?
Please would you point out the case play once more?
Thanks!

[APG]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

Thanks tref, I am here to learn. I understand LGP and continuous motion I am not using one over the other. I am using them together.
Aren’t they to be used but together?
Please would you point out the case play once more?
Thanks!

4-11 Continuous Motion

ART. 1...Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by a defensive player during the interval which beings when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.
ART. 2...If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to complete the customary arm movements, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in flight.

Continuous motion and LGP have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

[tref]

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

Thanks tref, I am here to learn.

Please would you point out the case play once more?
Thanks!

Arent we all!

I'll try to do you one better, how about the rule as written?

4-23-4
Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent without the ball:

b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.

Like Ragu... it's in there!


It sounds like your problem with understading the rule lies here:

Originally Posted by NoFear2020

B1 got to his spot at least right before A1 took off by that time A1 was in the act of shooting B1 is late.

Took off = Alight
Defender must obtain LGP prior to this.

Act of shooting = Gather
Defender can obtain LGP here OR before the shooter "takes off" & may move to maintain LGP during the act of shooting.

I'm sure you've seen a "set-shot" before? They never "take off" or alight but they still are in the "act of shooting" at some point.

On block/charge plays if we punch it, continuous motion is out the window & LGP is all that applies. If we block it, continuous motion applies because LGP obviously wasn't established.

To me its one or the other, we need not combine these rules to come to a decision.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by tref

Absofreakinglutely, call it like it is Brad!

An important factor that hasn't been brought up is the team officiating concept. I think its safe to say that 80% of us say its not a p/c. The more important piece would be "why" was it ruled incorrectly?

Lead didn't have a great position and got surprised -- simple as that.

We miss calls for two reasons: Out of position and lack of concentration. This one was both.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Brad

Lead didn't have a great position and got surprised -- simple as that.

We miss calls for two reasons: Out of position and lack of concentration. This one was both.

I have always liked Jim Evans's line. Yes, he is a baseball umpire, but his words apply equally to any sport:

"Surprise is the umpire's biggest enemy." Substitute "official's" for "umpire's".