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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 12:46pm
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Question

B1 fouls A1 (non shooting foul) Foul number 7 on B. No FT awarded (table does not notify and officials do not notice). A gets the ball. A's coach goes to the table and requests a 60 second time out. A2 scores a basket. Horn sounds before B obtains the ball to be put in play.

This is a correctable error. unawarded bonus free throw. Ball did not become alive a second time after the error.
The basket counts for A. A1 shoots the 1-1 with the lane cleared. And B1 gets the ball under the basket (and can run the baseline. No time out charged to A

Is this correct? I want to make sure I understand this because I suspect B's coach will not like the fact that 4 points may have just occurred because of the error that has now been corrected
Stew in VA
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:04pm
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Wink

when is you'r test?...
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:07pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ROMANO
when is you'r test?...
Just finishing my Rookie year. Season is over for me for HS until the fall. I still have 2 weeks of REC ball which I greatly enjoy.
Stew
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:20pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by stewcall
B1 fouls A1 (non shooting foul) Foul number 7 on B. No FT awarded (table does not notify and officials do not notice). A gets the ball. A's coach goes to the table and requests a 60 second time out. A2 scores a basket. Horn sounds before B obtains the ball to be put in play.

This is a correctable error. unawarded bonus free throw. Ball did not become alive a second time after the error.
The basket counts for A. A1 shoots the 1-1 with the lane cleared. And B1 gets the ball under the basket (and can run the baseline. No time out charged to A

Is this correct? I want to make sure I understand this because I suspect B's coach will not like the fact that 4 points may have just occurred because of the error that has now been corrected
Stew in VA
CVBOA
Not correctable. Must be identified during first dead ball. Your first dead ball is the TO. Once the ball was put into play after the TO, it is no longer correctable. If you did discover it during the TO, you would have shot the bonus and continued from there since there was no change of posession.

Mregor
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:22pm
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Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
Yes, he requested the TO to discuss the error. Table notifies. Error corrected as all conditions are met. 1-1 shot w/ lane cleared. No charged TO, ball back in play POI.
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
Yes, he requested the TO to discuss the error. Table notifies. Error corrected as all conditions are met. 1-1 shot w/ lane cleared. No charged TO, ball back in play POI.
I guess I was confused because in the original post he says TO, A2 scores a basket, and then the horn sounds. Even so, the lane would not be cleared. We would shoot the bonus and continue from there since there was no change of posession.

Mregor
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 02:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mregor
Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
Yes, he requested the TO to discuss the error. Table notifies. Error corrected as all conditions are met. 1-1 shot w/ lane cleared. No charged TO, ball back in play POI.
I guess I was confused because in the original post he says TO, A2 scores a basket, and then the horn sounds. Even so, the lane would not be cleared. We would shoot the bonus and continue from there since there was no change of posession.
Where's Camron?

Change of possession as soon as A2's shot went through the basket?
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 02:39pm
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ART. 2 . . . In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

Original situation indicated that there was a foul, A called TO, then ball was put in play, shot made, error noted. This is still correctable. A's timeout occurred during the deadball associated with the original foul call. Clock has not yet started. the clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
I think it's designed that way on purpose -- so both coaches look for the error and try to get it corrected before the fact. If they don't it could come back to bite them (as in this play).

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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

Hawks Coach,Bob,Camron-et al-this is the thread that I was referring to:
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/7541

Comments?
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
ART. 2 . . . In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

Original situation indicated that there was a foul, A called TO, then ball was put in play, shot made, error noted. This is still correctable. A's timeout occurred during the deadball associated with the original foul call. Clock has not yet started. the clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
Thank you for all of your responses. I agree with the aside and have found some who "rule" so as not to give the 2 for 1 deal deal. Clearly this is wrong and going against the rule 2.10.1.
Prevention- good pre game and talking with the table before the game is the best preactice approach. Once a situation occurrs- the best we can do is to be consistant, following the rule and communicate.
OK time to go watch so HS play off games and learn from the VETS
Stew
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
I think it's designed that way on purpose -- so both coaches look for the error and try to get it corrected before the fact. If they don't it could come back to bite them (as in this play).

Not sure both coaches want to see this fixed before the inbounds play, if they undersand the correctable error rule (and if they think the refs will get it right as well). If I am A, I may as well take the possession first, then see if I can't get my FTs as well. If I am B, I may prefer the FTs to a possession anyway, and would certainly prefer FTs to a possession and then FTs to follow. So B could decide not to say anything if they prefer the possession, taking a chance, but A would prefer to wait for the FTs after the possession. Call TO if you are A on the made shot, and you get the 2fer.
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

Hawks Coach,Bob,Camron-et al-this is the thread that I was referring to:
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/7541

Comments?
I agree with Camron, that possession changes on the made shot. The ball is dead until at disposal, but so is the ball when it goes OOB off A, and yet in both cases we know that B gets the ball - that qualifies as change of possession for me. I would shoot the FTs with the lane empty then go to POI in both of these situations.

If A inbounds, B deflects OOB, then table says whoops - shudda been FTs, you shoot the FTs as normal - no POI. I think the intent of this rule is to avoid giving A the 2fer when A hasn't yet capitalized on their wrongfully awarded possession, not to give A a made shot, FTs, and a chance at the rebounds on those FTs.

Imagine a 3 pointer on the possession, A then makes the front-end of the 1 and 1, misses the second, tips rebound to wing for another 3 pointer. I wouldn't think this is where you want to be on this one.
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Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:47pm
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[/B][/QUOTE]

Not sure both coaches want to see this fixed before the inbounds play, if they undersand the correctable error rule (and if they think the refs will get it right as well). If I am A, I may as well take the possession first, then see if I can't get my FTs as well. If I am B, I may prefer the FTs to a possession anyway, and would certainly prefer FTs to a possession and then FTs to follow. So B could decide not to say anything if they prefer the possession, taking a chance, but A would prefer to wait for the FTs after the possession. Call TO if you are A on the made shot, and you get the 2fer. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow. I would like to hear Vitale run the color commentary on one of your games.

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