Seatbelting a coach after a T

MN BB Ref · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 12:09pm

I guess I've been lucky (or thick skinned) in that I haven't had to "T" up many coaches during the course of a game. However on Tuesday I had an incident in a JV game that required a direct "T" be issued to the coach. At that time I informed him that from this point forward he was restricted to his bench as he had lost the rights to a coaching box. At this point he begins to argue with me saying that "I'm allowed to stand up when I coach". I then attempted to explain the rule to him but he obviously wasn't buying it as he told me "you can't make up rules like that". I then warned him that any further outbursts would result in his 2nd direct technical and his ejection. At that point he shut up but at times during the game I noticed he was standing up and coaching...not seated as he was supposed to be. Now I realize that he is allowed to stand for spontaneous cheering/celebration, but that wasn't the case here.

I guess my question to you is, have you had this situation occur in your games, and how did you handle it? In my case I didn't press the issue as he kept his mouth shut regarding the officiating and I thought issuing another "T" (it would've been the third "T" of the game on his team) would not necessarily make the matters any better. Eventually the varsity coach did tell him that he needed to take a seat and from that point forward he complied.

Dave

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 12:19pm

I have had coaches who do not argue about the loss of the coaching box and they do attempt to live with the letter of the law and the spirit of the rule. Sometimes they just forget themselves and they need a gentle reminder.

In your case, I believe that since he came close to getting a second one by disagreeing with you in manner that could have been described as unsportsmanlike. I would have handled him in this manner. I would not have gone looking for him to be off the bench. BUT, in the normanl course of officiating the game I would have T'd him up the first time I saw him off the bench when he was not suppposed to be and I would have hoped the my partner would have seen him first and beat me to the T.

Hawks Coach · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 12:57pm

If he is coaching and not addressing you, I would recommend that you remind him that he is seatbelted before you T him, regardless of what may have passed between you previously. If he gives you any more flack about it, you T him. If he ignores your gentle reminder, you T him. But try not to T a guy for coaching without a warning.

Also, I would be looking at whether he is standing, then remembering and sitting, or just takes his feet and never sits back down. The latter could get one more gentle warning, then a T. The former may warrant a little selective vision - he is not used to being seatbelted and is making an effort to comply. In an intense game, we may lose ourselves for a moment - if we are doing that and coaching (rather than calling you out), why would you want to whack?

CLAY · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:26pm

In this situation, after calling the T my partner would have come over and gotten between me and the coach. My partner then would explain the rule to the coach. Remember we do not make the rules, we inforce them. We do not pick and choose the rules we inforce. If the coach did not know the rule, we are not there to teach the rules we inforce them. IF a second T was to be given at that time I leave it up to my partner. After the coach was to be seatbelted and I noticed he was standing I would have given him the second T and ejected him from the gym. In doing so the coach would have had time in the locker room the read up on the rules.

A vet official once told me about dealing with coaches and explaining rules or calls to them. And I quote " your friends need no explainations, your enimies will never believe you"

Clay

just another ref · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:34pm

This is related.....sorta. Early this year VB game. Visiting team is down by 19 in the first half and apparently out of it. End of 3 they are still down 15. In the 4th they start to press and make a run and finally cut the lead all the way to 1. Meanwhile, as you might imagine, the visiting coach had become more and more active and vocal. Very little, if any, of this was nasty, but he was just making calls out loud. Travel! Foul! etc. I might add that I felt at the time that most of what he asked for was at least semi-legitimate, he was not just grasping at every straw, but he did get louder as the game got closer. Finally, after reporting a foul, I stopped in front of the bench and said, "Coach, would you do me a favor
and do a little more coaching and a little less calling? I
will ask you nicely the first time." He acted surprised.
"What? I'm just talking to my team." I'm still being nice.
"Coach, when you yell 'Travel' you're not talking to your team." He acted like he didn't hear this part. "I'm just talking to my team," and shrugged. his shoulder. I hadn't been annoyed until this point, but I just said, "Never mind, coach, just forget it." I don't know if he got better, but he didn't get any worse, so nothing further came of it. But here's the kicker. The assistant coach had picked up a T from my partner in the first 3 minutes of the game. indirect to head coach, shouldn't have been standing up anyway, etc. DUH! I didn't put all this together until days later when I was recalling the incident.
The question I then had for myself, and now I open for debate, is since we let him go the whole game,
would I/should I have told him when we had this exchange if I had suddenly remembered then, "Oh, by the way, you gotta sit the rest of the game," or should I have just said to myself it's too late now and I won't stir the waters any further? I was glad that I hadn't remembered and had to make a quick, possibly rash decision.

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CLAY
Remember we do not make the rules, we inforce them. We do not pick and choose the rules we inforce. If the coach did not know the rule, we are not there to teach the rules we inforce them.

I don't make the spelling rules, I enforce them.

Just kidding, Clay. I couldn't resist.

CLAY · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 02:18pm

Mark,

you try to do your work, and answer the phone and chat. I hope I have not made any blood work errors today, somebody could be in trouble.

LepTalBldgs · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:19pm

I go over with my partner that if one of us gives a T to the coach, that person administers the freethrows while the other is near the players at midcourt and handles any additional information that needs to be passed to the coach or players.

I also tell my partner that it will make US look better if any additional T's are given by the official who didn't call it the first time. The same official can surely give the second, it's just probably better for the second T to be given by the other official.

To what HawksCoach said, I would encourage my partner to give the coach the direction and I would avoid, if possible, repeated contact.

But then again, what do I know.

Hawks Coach · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:45pm

My comments were more about how the officiating team should handle it, not who should handle it. I agree that it is better to get the second official involved to avoid an escalation of a heated situation. And I also think it looks better if the second T comes from the second official to avoid the appearance that one of you has gotten an attitude with this particular coach. Probably easier to explain in the report if both of you saw fit to T him, rather than one guy both times. But this is not to say one ref can't give two Ts where warranted, especially if the partner isn't providing much back up.

All I was saying is that I wouldn't be hasty to T a seatbelted coach for standing and coaching - I would have one of the member of the officiating team warn him that he is seatbelted. And if he stands, coaches, and then corrects it himself, I wouldn't think that you need to have seen it. If he stands and yells, or refuses to be seatbelted after a warning, then do as you must. But I wouldn't be looking to disqualify a coach when he is coaching - you got plenty else to worry about.

TriggerMN · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:46pm

Your partner's job is to help you administer the free throws for the technical foul, not "get between you and the coach" so he can explain a rule. If the coach doesn't understand a rule as simple as the seatbelt rule, tough for him. Go administer your free throws. If he remains standing, say, "Coach, you've lost your standing privelege."