The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 12:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 166
Send a message via AIM to stewcall
Question

B1 fouls A1 (non shooting foul) Foul number 7 on B. No FT awarded (table does not notify and officials do not notice). A gets the ball. A's coach goes to the table and requests a 60 second time out. A2 scores a basket. Horn sounds before B obtains the ball to be put in play.

This is a correctable error. unawarded bonus free throw. Ball did not become alive a second time after the error.
The basket counts for A. A1 shoots the 1-1 with the lane cleared. And B1 gets the ball under the basket (and can run the baseline. No time out charged to A

Is this correct? I want to make sure I understand this because I suspect B's coach will not like the fact that 4 points may have just occurred because of the error that has now been corrected
Stew in VA
CVBOA
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 380
Send a message via ICQ to ROMANO Send a message via AIM to ROMANO
Wink

when is you'r test?...
__________________
THE ISRAELI OFFICIAL IS BACK
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 166
Send a message via AIM to stewcall
Quote:
Originally posted by ROMANO
when is you'r test?...
Just finishing my Rookie year. Season is over for me for HS until the fall. I still have 2 weeks of REC ball which I greatly enjoy.
Stew
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally posted by stewcall
B1 fouls A1 (non shooting foul) Foul number 7 on B. No FT awarded (table does not notify and officials do not notice). A gets the ball. A's coach goes to the table and requests a 60 second time out. A2 scores a basket. Horn sounds before B obtains the ball to be put in play.

This is a correctable error. unawarded bonus free throw. Ball did not become alive a second time after the error.
The basket counts for A. A1 shoots the 1-1 with the lane cleared. And B1 gets the ball under the basket (and can run the baseline. No time out charged to A

Is this correct? I want to make sure I understand this because I suspect B's coach will not like the fact that 4 points may have just occurred because of the error that has now been corrected
Stew in VA
CVBOA
Not correctable. Must be identified during first dead ball. Your first dead ball is the TO. Once the ball was put into play after the TO, it is no longer correctable. If you did discover it during the TO, you would have shot the bonus and continued from there since there was no change of posession.

Mregor
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,105
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 292
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
Yes, he requested the TO to discuss the error. Table notifies. Error corrected as all conditions are met. 1-1 shot w/ lane cleared. No charged TO, ball back in play POI.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 01:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
Yes, he requested the TO to discuss the error. Table notifies. Error corrected as all conditions are met. 1-1 shot w/ lane cleared. No charged TO, ball back in play POI.
I guess I was confused because in the original post he says TO, A2 scores a basket, and then the horn sounds. Even so, the lane would not be cleared. We would shoot the bonus and continue from there since there was no change of posession.

Mregor
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 02:15pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally posted by Mregor
Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Roger, I think you may have misinterpreted part of the original post. The coach went to the table to request the TO. As soon as there was a dead ball (A2 scored the basket), table sounded the horn and the officials discovered the error. So the error was discovered during the first dead ball after the error was made.

Chuck
Yes, he requested the TO to discuss the error. Table notifies. Error corrected as all conditions are met. 1-1 shot w/ lane cleared. No charged TO, ball back in play POI.
I guess I was confused because in the original post he says TO, A2 scores a basket, and then the horn sounds. Even so, the lane would not be cleared. We would shoot the bonus and continue from there since there was no change of posession.
Where's Camron?

Change of possession as soon as A2's shot went through the basket?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 02:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
ART. 2 . . . In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

Original situation indicated that there was a foul, A called TO, then ball was put in play, shot made, error noted. This is still correctable. A's timeout occurred during the deadball associated with the original foul call. Clock has not yet started. the clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
I think it's designed that way on purpose -- so both coaches look for the error and try to get it corrected before the fact. If they don't it could come back to bite them (as in this play).

Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:21pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

Hawks Coach,Bob,Camron-et al-this is the thread that I was referring to:
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/7541

Comments?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 166
Send a message via AIM to stewcall
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
ART. 2 . . . In order to correct any of the officials' errors listed in Article 1, such error must be recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

Original situation indicated that there was a foul, A called TO, then ball was put in play, shot made, error noted. This is still correctable. A's timeout occurred during the deadball associated with the original foul call. Clock has not yet started. the clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
Thank you for all of your responses. I agree with the aside and have found some who "rule" so as not to give the 2 for 1 deal deal. Clearly this is wrong and going against the rule 2.10.1.
Prevention- good pre game and talking with the table before the game is the best preactice approach. Once a situation occurrs- the best we can do is to be consistant, following the rule and communicate.
OK time to go watch so HS play off games and learn from the VETS
Stew
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
As an aside, this is one of the more sides of correctable error that I don't like. Team A received possession as a result of the foul and subsequently scored, but will now also get to shoot the FTs as a result of the same foul. Seems like they are getting a 2 for 1 deal because of an error. People like to think of crrectable error as "righting a wrong," but some of the corrections seem just to perpetrate anther wrong IMO.
I think it's designed that way on purpose -- so both coaches look for the error and try to get it corrected before the fact. If they don't it could come back to bite them (as in this play).

Not sure both coaches want to see this fixed before the inbounds play, if they undersand the correctable error rule (and if they think the refs will get it right as well). If I am A, I may as well take the possession first, then see if I can't get my FTs as well. If I am B, I may prefer the FTs to a possession anyway, and would certainly prefer FTs to a possession and then FTs to follow. So B could decide not to say anything if they prefer the possession, taking a chance, but A would prefer to wait for the FTs after the possession. Call TO if you are A on the made shot, and you get the 2fer.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 2,217
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by Hawks Coach
The clock starts when A inbounds, and then when A scores, we are in a correctable error situation until B has ball at disposal. At that point, ball is once again live and you can't correct anything.

Hawks Coach,Bob,Camron-et al-this is the thread that I was referring to:
http://www.officialforum.com/thread/7541

Comments?
I agree with Camron, that possession changes on the made shot. The ball is dead until at disposal, but so is the ball when it goes OOB off A, and yet in both cases we know that B gets the ball - that qualifies as change of possession for me. I would shoot the FTs with the lane empty then go to POI in both of these situations.

If A inbounds, B deflects OOB, then table says whoops - shudda been FTs, you shoot the FTs as normal - no POI. I think the intent of this rule is to avoid giving A the 2fer when A hasn't yet capitalized on their wrongfully awarded possession, not to give A a made shot, FTs, and a chance at the rebounds on those FTs.

Imagine a 3 pointer on the possession, A then makes the front-end of the 1 and 1, misses the second, tips rebound to wing for another 3 pointer. I wouldn't think this is where you want to be on this one.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 21, 2003, 03:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: S.E. Iowa
Posts: 284
[/B][/QUOTE]

Not sure both coaches want to see this fixed before the inbounds play, if they undersand the correctable error rule (and if they think the refs will get it right as well). If I am A, I may as well take the possession first, then see if I can't get my FTs as well. If I am B, I may prefer the FTs to a possession anyway, and would certainly prefer FTs to a possession and then FTs to follow. So B could decide not to say anything if they prefer the possession, taking a chance, but A would prefer to wait for the FTs after the possession. Call TO if you are A on the made shot, and you get the 2fer. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow. I would like to hear Vitale run the color commentary on one of your games.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1