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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 09:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
And then if the contact is slightly more......and slightly more.......and slightly more........??


You have to draw a line, on every call.

The last call has zero bearing.
If u don't think there are certain points in games where the last call doesn't matter than your games suffer and I don't believe your officiating realistically. Like I said earlier you have to have a feel for the game. If u believe the contact on the other end is obviously different than the previous end then do what you have to do, but if it isn't and you call the two plays differently then prepare to take crap from, players, coaches, fans and most importantly supervisors for being incosistent when all you really had to do was call them the same and the coach can't say a word when u tell him that. Just my take tho, maybe more than just you disagree with me.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 09:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64 View Post
If u don't think there are certain points in games where the last call doesn't matter than your games suffer and I don't believe your officiating realistically. Like I said earlier you have to have a feel for the game. If u believe the contact on the other end is obviously different than the previous end then do what you have to do, but if it isn't and you call the two plays differently then prepare to take crap from, players, coaches, fans and most importantly supervisors for being incosistent when all you really had to do was call them the same and the coach can't say a word when u tell him that. Just my take tho, maybe more than just you disagree with me.
Gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's really all that difficult or controversial about your take. Seems pretty basic and obvious to me. :shrug:
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 09:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btaylor64 View Post
If u believe the contact on the other end is obviously different than the previous end then do what you have to do....
The only way two calls can be different is if the contact is obviously different?

Obvious to whom?

The only thing obvious about many calls to many observers is "Hey! He called that against us! I don't like it!"

Quote:
.....but if it isn't and you call the two plays differently then prepare to take crap.....
If one isn't prepared to take crap, I suggest one should consider another pastime.

Quote:
coach can't say a word when u tell him that.
What can he say anyway?

"That's the same play you called against us on the other end!"

"Nah, but it was similar."
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 09:41pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's really all that difficult or controversial about your take. Seems pretty basic and obvious to me. :shrug:
There is no difficulty or controversy behind what he said because it is basic and obvious to most...but then again so is a blarge administration....
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 10:08pm
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Gotta tell you, I'm not sure what's really all that difficult or controversial about your take. Seems pretty basic and obvious to me. :shrug:
I think both sides have overstated the obvious. Consistency is obviously one of the most important things we strive for. But, conversely, the next call does not have to be the same as the last call, even though it may seem to be exactly the same to the untrained, often biased observer.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 18, 2011, 10:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
I think both sides have overstated the obvious. Consistency is obviously one of the most important things we strive for. But, conversely, the next call does not have to be the same as the last call, even though it may seem to be exactly the same to the untrained, often biased observer.
And no one said it did. Only that you should probably take the last call into account. If you think they're sufficiently different, fine, but to simply ignore the history of the individual game is, to quote Ben, "unrealistic."
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2011, 01:00am
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The GAME within the GAME...

Snaqs we gotta work a game together!
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Last edited by tref; Tue Jul 19, 2011 at 01:02am.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2011, 06:31am
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Consistency, Consistency, Consistency...

Written by Tim Sloan, Bettendorf, Iowa
Released on MyReferee
Copyright© Referee Enterprises, Inc.

In basketball, consistency is a term that few can define but almost everyone can recognize and appreciate in a crew. Provided that a referee doesn't make the game dangerous or take the competitiveness out of it, the good coaches and teams will adjust to what the zebras give them. In fact, you can often pick those coaches' voices out from the mob behind you. Instead of asking, "How could you call that a foul?" they're reminding you, "If you're going to call it at that end. ..."

Consistency for basketball officials really exists on four levels and it's important for their upward mobility to succeed on all four of them.

Self-consistency. Most have heard the debate about whether a foul in the first quarter should necessarily be a foul in the fourth quarter or vice versa. Generically, a foul is a foul. But if you divide them up as safety, advantage-disadvantage and game control fouls, there are many successful officials who preach flexibility on the latter. They feel that you can change the mood of a game for the worse by being too rigid or too loose at the wrong times. Maybe so, but you still have to maintain a level of predictability during a game. If you're like most, trying to deliberately change your standard for calling a foul during a game is like trying to write with your other hand. It's clumsy, frustrating and not very pretty. Changing your standard depends too much on your current mindset. So, it's reasonable to believe that self-consistency over the course of a game breaks down as a result of other factors. Some of the principal ones are fatigue, attitude toward the game and comfort.

Fatigue is an easy one. An official whose heart isn't getting enough blood to the legs isn't getting enough to the brain either. Attention to keys and concentration dwindle as the game wears on and so do the responses. There is no real substitute for being in condition to handle the game. Attitude toward the game changes when the official forgets what I consider to be the golden rule: "You're paid to be here so it doesn't matter what you think of the experience." Call the game and don't cheat them with "good enough." Comfort doesn't refer to the fit of your compression shorts. It means how you're reacting to your surroundings: Do you feel safe? Are people or surroundings distracting you? There are people who can sleep soundly in an orchestra pit and there are referees who can cheerfully blank out the most hostile of environments and keep on doing their jobs. They don't let the fear of a lynching change how they call a game. Learn to deal with stress or learn to manage the issues that threaten you. The great officials can do that.

The bottom line is that the participants need to be able to trust you if you want to keep getting called back. And having the physical and emotional tools to call it consistently is paramount.

Consistency within the crew. Mechanically, I think it's far easier for referees who have never met to work together in a three-person crew than two. That's because they can focus on a more confined area and have to rely less intuitively on their partners to watch their backs for them. There's less of a need for a "system." That goes for crews who have worked together for years, too. Unfortunately, the flip side of that "independence" is the same partners might have more trouble staying "in sync" with one another during a game. If they're paying less attention to what their comrades are doing, they're probably not calling exactly what the others are calling either. You want everyone calling it the same way.

Crewmembers have to establish a reputation for working to the same standard in the same situations throughout the game. Unless you can find identical triplets somewhere, it inevitably means that even the best officials have to exercise some give-and-take in their judgments to leverage their success as a crew.

Consistency from crew to crew. One of the most underestimated factors in a crew's potential for success this week is what the coaches had to put up with last week. If the officials come in and put on a completely different show than the last gang did, one crew's going to get it in the neck. Somebody in authority has to be communicating with crews and telling them how their products differ - good or bad. It's even more critical that those crews listen and adjust. A great way to get booted out of a conference is to shrug off how you differ from other crews and say, "Take it or leave it." They'll leave it.

Perhaps the right word isn't consistency but capability. In manufacturing, a consistent process is one that always gives the same result but that result isn't necessarily the one you want. A capable process is one that consistently gives the desired results. Assigners want officials who reward their confidence in them by turning in capable performances night after night.

Fortunately, capability is a quality you can develop if you're willing to work at it. And it certainly pays off when you do.

Source: Arbiter
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2011, 06:36am
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This reminds me of A Few Good Men.
I object.
Overruled.
I STRENUOUSLY object.
Oh STRENUOUSLY object, well thats different.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 19, 2011, 07:39am
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Originally Posted by Judtech View Post
There was wisdom in reply #33 I think
Cool. Sorry I missed your post. I often don't read all posts in the off-season.
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