Yelling (can't think of a better title)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I knew I could get this thing cranked up again!

I am so proud of myself!

Sigh! Don't know whether to laugh or cry!

[oatmealqueen]

Just because we personally do not like some tactics (like yelling at shooter) we just can't make up T's.
Players and coaches do all kinds of dumb things, but I try not to inject my personal judgements about the alleged acts.

[ronald]

I have had a similar situation. A1 was dribbling down the court and B1 who is guarding A1 is screaming Ball, Ball, Ball right in her face (within 2 inches). That is as unsporting as you can get and I Td the girl. IABBO board 12 clinician agreed.

Look at the motive for the action and I can not conceive how it does not fall into the parameters of an unsportsman- like act.

Chuck, the rule to use is 10.3.8 "...not limited to ..." Good enough for me in my situation.

As for the original situation, I would have to be there to make my decision but am inclined to give a warning about that behaviour and then give a T on the next instance.

[Hawks Coach]

That's a Pat Summit special - she has always coached yelling ball, ball, ball on defense. I think the sudden unexpected shout COULD merit a T for unsporting behavior (although it is clearly a more soccer oriented ruling), but this? Annoying as all getout, but yougottabekiddingme. How long have you done girls ball? There one of these teams in every league.

As an aside, on the pro soccer front, I was watching a Premier League game where a guy got carded for calling for the ball when his opponent had it with his back turned. his opponent turned and passed to him, TWEET, yellow card! I actually like some of their sportsmanship standards.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Feb 13th, 2003 at 10:08 PM]

[ronald]

Hawks,

Read the post more clearly. The kid was yelling it within inches like 1-2 inches in her face. Can't get any more unsporting than that. That action has nothing to do with the spirit of the game or sportsmanship. If you can't grasp that, then you have not a clue what sportsmanship is about.

And by the way, I'll take the advice of my clinician who has been teaching officials for more than 30 plus years.

[oc]

If you told a kid you didn't want them to do this anymore, but they kept doing it, what would you do? I hate it when kids do this but don't see a T warranted by the rule book.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
Just because we personally do not like some tactics (like yelling at shooter) we just can't make up T's.

I agree, but yelling to create fear or a distraction is not a tactic, it's not strategy, it's not a skill. It's done only b/c the defender has been completely outplayed and s/he has no other way to try to stop a good play. It's like a defender who gives a "bear hug" to prevent the lay-up. There's no other way to stop the good play by the offense. But that doesn't make it strategy, it's an intentional foul. Same thing with yelling. I wholeheartedly believe that it's outside the rules of sporting behavior. As I've said previously, however, I do not call the T for it.

Chuck

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
... but yelling to create fear or a distraction is not a tactic, it's not strategy, it's not a skill. ....

Chuck,
As a player did this actually bother you?

It never bothered me, maybe that's why it doesn't bother me.

mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
Chuck,
As a player did this actually bother you?

Oddly, I don't ever remember it being done when I played. I can't remember one instance from my playing days. Maybe that's why I am so bothered by it now. I don't know. It's clearly unsportsmanlike, tho.

Interestingly, while playing soccer in HS, a ball got kicked straight up in the air. My baseball instincts kicked in and I yelled "I got it!" I got my only yellow card in 3 years.

Curiously, I've taken to starting all my paragraphs with adverbs

Chuck

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by ronald
Hawks,

Read the post more clearly. The kid was yelling it within inches like 1-2 inches in her face. Can't get any more unsporting than that. That action has nothing to do with the spirit of the game or sportsmanship. If you can't grasp that, then you have not a clue what sportsmanship is about.

And by the way, I'll take the advice of my clinician who has been teaching officials for more than 30 plus years.

I read it perfectly clearly. We have a dribbler who is allowing a defender to stand with her face literally "2 inches" from the dribblers face? Strains credibility and I have trouble imagining any defender remaining in that position with respect to a moving player, but I'll go with it since it's your story.

Defender is out of position cause she doesn't have her head on the ball. Offensive player should make a move and beat her so she is yelling at air. Beat her and she'll stop doing it. with that said. . .

I didn't say I like this defensive tactic (and yes, it is a tactic from a kid's perspective when they learn it in camps). But an immediate T - you mentioned no warning? To me that is ridiculous, and yes, I have read all you said on it. If you think the kid has gone too far, have the decency to tell her that you won't tolerate it, then T her if it continues and you feel you must.

[added]One more thing on this subject. Since this yelling BALL BALL BALL is regularly done by girls who learn it in defensive drills in camps, what is the allowable distance where you would permit this activity? Can you define that distance for the player you just Td so she knows there is an 18 inch BALL BALL BALL rule for this game? Or would you T them for 2 feet, 10 feet, 20 feet? Is yelling BALL BALL BALL now illegal, or is there a distance where you find it acceptable? I am not being a Smart@$$, just pointing out some of the difficulties you can run into on this call.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Feb 14th, 2003 at 08:16 AM]

[w_sohl]

I tend to look at the yelling of the word "ball", which by the way is done 90% of the timewhen a dribbler has picked up their dribble, as an indication to their teammates that the ball, from thier perspective, is dead, be aware that a pass may be coming you way soon or come and trap the offensive player. The word shot also is just an indicator to defensive teammates that may have their back to the rim defending a player without the ball that a shot is gone up and it is now time to rebound or flare to the other end for a quick outlet pass. In my situation in an earlier post in this thread the player was beaten, was trailing the play by at least four feet and just screamed at the top of his lungs, not the word shot or ball, just a yell. In my opinion this is very unsporting, was done with the intent to put fear for bodily harm and should be delt with.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Chuck,

Curiously, I've taken to starting all my paragraphs with adverbs

Chuck

Seriously, this is funny

A yellow card for yelling, "I got it"? Wow.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

Interestingly, while playing soccer in HS, a ball got kicked straight up in the air. My baseball instincts kicked in and I yelled "I got it!" I got my only yellow card in 3 years. [/B][/QUOTE]Now if you hadda yelled "I'm a BoSox fan"...

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by ronald
Hawks, If you can't grasp that, then you have not a clue what sportsmanship is about.

And by the way, I'll take the advice of my clinician who has been teaching officials for more than 30 plus years.

Easy there big fella...Hawks Coach has been around this board for a looooonnnngggg time...as far as class and sportsmanship go, you won't find many on this board with more of either one than Hawks has - except maybe Jurassic Ref (sportsmanship anyway )... and just because the clinician has been teaching for 30 years doesn't mean he's right...as has been said, there is no rules basis for calling a T in this situation...a quick word to the player and the coach will usually stop it, but if they're smart they will know the rules don't support calling a T...

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by rockyroad
but if they're smart they will know the rules don't support calling a T...

not specifically, but they do support the official making a judgement call on the issue...