Travel or Jump Ball?

[bainsey]

Would you call this fully accurate...? (If not, why not?)

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, it's a travel.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot while a defender has his hand on the ball, it's a held ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Would you call this fully accurate...? (If not, why not?)

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, it's a travel.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot while a defender has his hand on the ball, it's a held ball.

Did the defender's hand on the ball prevent the player from releasing the ball?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Did the defender's hand on the ball prevent the player from releasing the ball?

Okay, let's modify.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, while a defender's hand on the ball prevents the ball-holder from releasing it, it's a held ball.

How's that?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, let's modify.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, while a defender's hand on the ball prevents the ball-holder from releasing it, it's a held ball.

How's that?

By pure definition? No. As Nevada notes, check out the definition of held ball. Should be in rule 4 somewhere.

[tref]

4-25
It seems as though one part of the definition pertains to an airborne player unable to release the ball on a pass or try.

The other part of the definition is, opponents hands firmly on the ball so that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.

Originally Posted by bainsey

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, while a defender's hand on the ball prevents the ball-holder from releasing it, it's a held ball.

I'm going with a held ball prior to the travel here.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

4-25
It seems as though one part of the definition pertains to an airborne player unable to release the ball on a pass or try.

The other part of the definition is, opponents hands firmly on the ball so that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.



I'm going with a held ball prior to the travel here.

Since the player isn't airborne, you have to use the "other part," which states "hands". One hand isn't enough, IOW.

That said, always listen to bob.

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Since the player isn't airborne, you have to use the "other part," which states "hands". One hand isn't enough, IOW.

That said, always listen to bob.

Hmmmmm ~~ A1 & B1 are opponents, right? One hand of A1 & one hand of B1 are hands, right?

Not saying it would happen that way... but I dont think they meant the defender has to have 2 hands on the ball. I've seen the offense pick up the ball with two hands & the defender reach out with one hand & cuff it so firmly that undue roughness has occured prior to the travel.

Any case plays out there besides the airborne player sitch?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Would you call this fully accurate...? (If not, why not?)

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, it's a travel.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot while a defender has his hand on the ball, it's a held ball.

1) Yes.

2) On a rules test? No. In a game? 95% of the time Yes.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2) On a rules test? No. In a game? 95% of the time Yes.

Right, didn't mean the rules test. Here, my mind was on the "trigger."

When a pivot foot comes up and goes back down, that's a trigger in my mind. That's a travel. However, if the trigger occurs when the defense is pinning the ball, then it's a held ball. That's where I was going.

You mentioned 95% of the time, Bob. What would be a minority case where this wouldn't be a held ball?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, didn't mean the rules test. Here, my mind was on the "trigger."

When a pivot foot comes up and goes back down, that's a trigger in my mind. That's a travel. However, if the trigger occurs when the defense is pinning the ball, then it's a held ball. That's where I was going.

You mentioned 95% of the time, Bob. What would be a minority case where this wouldn't be a held ball?

Well, if you thought A1 could release the ball anyway, or if the pivot foot was up, and 95% down and then B1 touches the ball just as the foot hits, or it's a blowout game, A1 is winning big and the arrow favors A.

[tref]

So time & score does matter in managing a ballgame correctly?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tref

So time & score does matter in managing a ballgame correctly?

The last part was mostly tongue in cheek.

[btaylor64]

I revised my post please check above. I actually cited the NCAA rule and everything!!! haha The rule sounds to me like if player puts their hand on the ball and the player does not lose possession that it is a jump ball situation.