Travel or Jump Ball?

[tref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

It doesn't say "AND" or "AND/OR" it just says "OR" and I take that to mean that this can happen and it is a jump ball OR this can happen and it is still a jump ball. they are separate acts of which both, SEPARATELY, are considered jump balls. The two aren't intertwined by saying "AND" or "AND/OR"

Just like rules that use "shall" & "may" the key words help us make the right call & sometimes gives us options.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

It doesn't say "AND" or "AND/OR" it just says "OR" and I take that to mean that this can happen and it is a jump ball OR this can happen and it is still a jump ball. they are separate acts of which both, SEPARATELY, are considered jump balls. The two aren't intertwined by saying "AND" or "AND/OR"

b. On the ball to prevent an airborne player from throwing the ball or attempting a try and both players return to the playing court with both hands on the ball or (men) the airborne player returns to the playing court never losing control of the ball.

Notice that after the word "or" is "men" in parenthesis. This mean's something from the first part of the passage has to occur. The only logical phrase that we can combine with what follows after "or" is:

"On the ball to prevent an airborne player from throwing the ball or attempting a try and ".

So now we have:

On the ball to prevent an airborne player from throwing the ball or attempting a try and the airborne player returns to the playing court never losing control of the ball.

So as I said before, IMO, a mere touch does not necessarily mean the defender PREVENTED the airborne player from throwing the ball or attempting a try.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

NCAA Rule 4 Section 37 b

a held ball occurs when an opponent places his or her hand(s):

b. On the ball to prevent an airborne player from throwing the ball or
attempting a try and both players return to the playing court with
both hands on the ball or (men) the airborne player returns to the
playing court never losing control of the ball.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The bolded part makes this a judgement call. A mere touch isn't going to do it for me.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

It doesn't say "AND" or "AND/OR" it just says "OR" and I take that to mean that this can happen and it is a jump ball OR this can happen and it is still a jump ball. they are separate acts of which both, SEPARATELY, are considered jump balls. The two aren't intertwined by saying "AND" or "AND/OR"

You are caught up on the wrong "OR". I agree that either situation around the "OR" you're referring to can independently lead to the violation.

The key part of this that I think you are missing is highlighted above. A mere touch doesn't necessarily "prevent an airborne player from throwing the ball or attempting a try".

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I would disagree with this. Even if the player just "touches" the ball as you state, if it somehow prevents him from releasing it and he comes back to the floor without ever bobbling it or losing secure possession of the basketball that is a jump ball.

At the NFHS level you would be wrong. Billy is correct.
The NFHS even has a case book play which says it is a travel, yet you wish to always call a held ball. (btw held ball is the proper term, not jump ball)

Originally Posted by btaylor64

Snaqs, I am just not understanding then. It sounds like you said the same thing as Billy said. How is it possible to have a travel when a player touches the ball, preventing it from being released in his hands and coming back to the floor with it?? and I don't mean a capped ball I mean the player swipes at it, hits the ball, and the player never loses control and comes back to the floor... I used to think that was a travel as well about 4 or 5 years ago.

Too bad that your pro philosophy changed your thinking. You were better off 4 or 5 years ago.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

It doesn't say "AND" or "AND/OR" it just says "OR" and I take that to mean that this can happen and it is a jump ball OR this can happen and it is still a jump ball. they are separate acts of which both, SEPARATELY, are considered jump balls. The two aren't intertwined by saying "AND" or "AND/OR"

I think you're too focussed on the semantics (note, I'm not even delving into it). Instead, I'm considering that I doubt the committee's intent was to give the shooter the ability to land w/o violation just because a defender happens to brush the ball.