Travel or Jump Ball?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MelbRef

What do you call?

A1 drives to basket, begins to gather ball, but defender puts hand on the ball (pins it) which causes A1 to take extra steps.

Easy held ball call; by definition the shot has begun and he's prevented from releasing it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Easy held ball call; by definition the shot has begun and he's prevented from releasing it.

Not so fast, sir! Is A1 an airborne player?

(Hint: Check the definition of held ball.)

[ontheway]

is a defenders hand pinning the ball equivalent to equal possesion?

[bainsey]

Would you call this fully accurate...? (If not, why not?)

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, it's a travel.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot while a defender has his hand on the ball, it's a held ball.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Would you call this fully accurate...? (If not, why not?)

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, it's a travel.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot while a defender has his hand on the ball, it's a held ball.

Did the defender's hand on the ball prevent the player from releasing the ball?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Did the defender's hand on the ball prevent the player from releasing the ball?

Okay, let's modify.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, while a defender's hand on the ball prevents the ball-holder from releasing it, it's a held ball.

How's that?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, let's modify.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, while a defender's hand on the ball prevents the ball-holder from releasing it, it's a held ball.

How's that?

By pure definition? No. As Nevada notes, check out the definition of held ball. Should be in rule 4 somewhere.

[tref]

4-25
It seems as though one part of the definition pertains to an airborne player unable to release the ball on a pass or try.

The other part of the definition is, opponents hands firmly on the ball so that control cannot be obtained without undue roughness.

Originally Posted by bainsey

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, while a defender's hand on the ball prevents the ball-holder from releasing it, it's a held ball.

I'm going with a held ball prior to the travel here.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Would you call this fully accurate...? (If not, why not?)

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot, it's a travel.

If the ball-holder picks up and sets down his pivot foot while a defender has his hand on the ball, it's a held ball.

1) Yes.

2) On a rules test? No. In a game? 95% of the time Yes.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

2) On a rules test? No. In a game? 95% of the time Yes.

Right, didn't mean the rules test. Here, my mind was on the "trigger."

When a pivot foot comes up and goes back down, that's a trigger in my mind. That's a travel. However, if the trigger occurs when the defense is pinning the ball, then it's a held ball. That's where I was going.

You mentioned 95% of the time, Bob. What would be a minority case where this wouldn't be a held ball?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Right, didn't mean the rules test. Here, my mind was on the "trigger."

When a pivot foot comes up and goes back down, that's a trigger in my mind. That's a travel. However, if the trigger occurs when the defense is pinning the ball, then it's a held ball. That's where I was going.

You mentioned 95% of the time, Bob. What would be a minority case where this wouldn't be a held ball?

Well, if you thought A1 could release the ball anyway, or if the pivot foot was up, and 95% down and then B1 touches the ball just as the foot hits, or it's a blowout game, A1 is winning big and the arrow favors A.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not so fast, sir! Is A1 an airborne player?

(Hint: Check the definition of held ball.)

Yeah, I realized that after I posted it, just forgot to come back and address it.