The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 23, 2003, 11:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 18
As I've mentioned before I still play competive basketball as well as officiate. Yesterday, my select team was playing an exhibition game against a local high school varsity team. I first got on the court about midway through the first quarter and almost immediately the ball went out of bounds on the baseline in our end. After the official handed me the ball out of bounds the player that was guarding me moved right up on the line and was waving his hands in a such a way that I couldn't get a good angle on a pass. So, to improve my angle I took about 3 steps directly backward and then a little shuffle to the side. I know that both feet were still easily within the 3 ft. area. I had moved maybe 6 in. to the side at the most. As you've probably guessed by now the administering official called me for travelling. I looked at him in shock and he said "You're only allowed one step." My coach hauled me off and gave me a lecture about stupid turnovers. Please don't punish players that know the rules because of your ignorance. (I'm sure no one here would do that)
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 23, 2003, 12:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 769
You can go back as far as you want (or are physically able). The Designated spot is indefintely deep. I'd say you had a poor official that needs to review the rules. I'll also say that I think I worked with that guy last week.

Mregor
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 23, 2003, 02:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
That's what happens when D-1 officials work select leagues on their off nights. :-)

Z
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 23, 2003, 02:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Just north of hell
Posts: 9,250
Send a message via AIM to Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
That's what happens when D-1 officials work select leagues on their off nights. :-)

Z
Darn! Ya beat me to it!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 23, 2003, 07:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
That's what happens when D-1 officials work select leagues on their off nights. :-)

Z
Point taken- but this guy also refs high school varsity, so I don't think it's too much to ask that he know the rules. I'm in my first year and I know the rule- he should definitely know it.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 23, 2003, 08:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Thumbs down Don't be so judgmental

Quote:
Originally posted by ewiar
Point taken- but this guy also refs high school varsity, so I don't think it's too much to ask that he know the rules. I'm in my first year and I know the rule- he should definitely know it.
What are you the authority on what rules an official definitely should know. No one here knows every rule. I'm sure that there are rules that you don't know as well. Just because someone is a varsity official doesn't mean he's perfect. We all make mistakes and we all went through stages of making the wrong call because we didn't know the rules.

You will too.

BTW, it's obvious that you're coach didn't know the rule either. Why didn't you point out how he should know the rules as well?
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 09:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 152
Re: Don't be so judgmental

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by ewiar

What are you the authority on what rules an official definitely should know. No one here knows every rule. I'm sure that there are rules that you don't know as well. Just because someone is a varsity official doesn't mean he's perfect. We all make mistakes and we all went through stages of making the wrong call because we didn't know the rules.
gotta disagree with you here -- this is a pretty basic rule that every official should know . . . we get a lot of arcane discussions about unique applications here that are easily forgiveable to ref who doesn't know them, but this is a basic, fundamental rule. What other rules ignorance is OK -- refs who don't know there is rule against double dribble? Don't know there is a 5 second closely guarded rule?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 09:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 778
Hawk, you should know better. If you come here and criticize an official some of these guys will blast you. You are correct and it ticks me off when the vets don't know the rules. I was off Monday and Wednesday this week so I went and watched a couple of games my very good friend was working. I consider him a good example on the court and he has coached and been officiating now for 10+ years varsity and done some college. What I observed was an arrow mistake, arrow wasn't switched after OT toss, wrong team crosses halfcourt with ball,table buzzes and informs them, they give it back to the other team, understandable but wrong by rule. Next night, my buddy gives a girl a T in the first quarter for having an earring in, absolutely wrong, and how could they not have seen it in warmups. His partner gives a coach two T's within 2 seconds for a couple of inaudible comments, not cursing he said, his justification was the coach was down by 20 and "wanted to go". I doubt it. I am learning about presence and game management from them and teaching them about rules knowledge which they should already know.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 09:50am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,910
What I observed was an arrow mistake, arrow wasn't switched after OT toss, wrong team crosses halfcourt with ball,table buzzes and informs them, they give it back to the other team, understandable but wrong by rule.

You completely lost me here. What exactly happened?

Z
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 11:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 778
Ok, red gets jump in OT, jump ball with :48 left, arrow points to red, red inbounds ball crosses halfcourt. Table buzzes, tells officials the arrow was wrong. They give the ball back to white on the baseline. According to page 46 of the casebook under "Arrow mistake", this is the incorrect procedure. As I stated, it was understandable in the situation to me, but my point was they didn't know the rule.
__________________
Church Basketball "The brawl that begins with a prayer"
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 11:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally posted by hawkk
gotta disagree with you here -- this is a pretty basic rule that every official should know . . . we get a lot of arcane discussions about unique applications here that are easily forgiveable to ref who doesn't know them, but this is a basic, fundamental rule. What other rules ignorance is OK -- refs who don't know there is rule against double dribble? Don't know there is a 5 second closely guarded rule?
There are plenty of rules that everyone should know but they don't. In fact, there are a lot more who don't know them that there are that do. I never said any rule of ignorance was okay and I'm not excusing the guy for missing the call, just pointing out to the youngster that we all make mistakes as we learn and he will to. Nobody becomes a rules guru overnight.

He11, we've got NCAA D1 officials who are giving traveling signals on spot violations. Don't you think they should know better? Yet we had people taking up for them. I'm just saying that this is probably a young official that may be getting a few varsity games but obviously doesn't have it all down pat yet. Not everyone has the opportunity to attend clinics or participate in a forum such as this.

It's okay if you don't agree but that's JMHO.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 24th, 2003 at 10:47 AM]
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 12:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 152
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef

He11, we've got NCAA D1 officials who are giving traveling signals on spot violations. Don't you think they should know better?
Using a signal that is improper (or, at least, that many people think is improper) is an entirely different animal. People are human, sure. People make mistakes, sure. And very few refs know the application of every rule in every possible situation. Of course. But there are indubitably basic rules that anyone reffing at the varsity level should know. We can debate which rules those are, but IMHO, the rules governing movement on OOB plays is one of them.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 12:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,616
Quote:
Originally posted by hawkk
We can debate which rules those are, but IMHO, the rules governing movement on OOB plays is one of them.
You obviously haven't read the other throw-in thread.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 03:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 18
Actually it was an older guy that's being doing this for quite a few years.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 24, 2003, 03:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 18
Re: Don't be so judgmental

Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
BTW, it's obvious that you're coach didn't know the rule either. Why didn't you point out how he should know the rules as well? [/B]
Yes, you're right my coach didn't know the rule either but I thought that was expected of "howler monkeys." Officials should know better.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:14pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1