As I've mentioned before I still play competive basketball as well as officiate. Yesterday, my select team was playing an exhibition game against a local high school varsity team. I first got on the court about midway through the first quarter and almost immediately the ball went out of bounds on the baseline in our end. After the official handed me the ball out of bounds the player that was guarding me moved right up on the line and was waving his hands in a such a way that I couldn't get a good angle on a pass. So, to improve my angle I took about 3 steps directly backward and then a little shuffle to the side. I know that both feet were still easily within the 3 ft. area. I had moved maybe 6 in. to the side at the most. As you've probably guessed by now the administering official called me for travelling. I looked at him in shock and he said "You're only allowed one step." My coach hauled me off and gave me a lecture about stupid turnovers. <Sigh> Please don't punish players that know the rules because of your ignorance. (I'm sure no one here would do that)
Thanks

You can go back as far as you want (or are physically able). The Designated spot is indefintely deep. I'd say you had a poor official that needs to review the rules. I'll also say that I think I worked with that guy last week. :D

Mregor

That's what happens when D-1 officials work select leagues on their off nights. :-)

Z

Darn! Ya beat me to it! :D

Point taken- but this guy also refs high school varsity, so I don't think it's too much to ask that he know the rules. I'm in my first year and I know the rule- he should definitely know it.

Don't be so judgmental
 

What are you the authority on what rules an official definitely should know. No one here knows every rule. I'm sure that there are rules that you don't know as well. Just because someone is a varsity official doesn't mean he's perfect. We all make mistakes and we all went through stages of making the wrong call because we didn't know the rules.

You will too.

BTW, it's obvious that you're coach didn't know the rule either. Why didn't you point out how he should know the rules as well?

Re: Don't be so judgmental
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef
[B]gotta disagree with you here -- this is a pretty basic rule that every official should know . . . we get a lot of arcane discussions about unique applications here that are easily forgiveable to ref who doesn't know them, but this is a basic, fundamental rule. What other rules ignorance is OK -- refs who don't know there is rule against double dribble? Don't know there is a 5 second closely guarded rule?

Hawk, you should know better. If you come here and criticize an official some of these guys will blast you. You are correct and it ticks me off when the vets don't know the rules. I was off Monday and Wednesday this week so I went and watched a couple of games my very good friend was working. I consider him a good example on the court and he has coached and been officiating now for 10+ years varsity and done some college. What I observed was an arrow mistake, arrow wasn't switched after OT toss, wrong team crosses halfcourt with ball,table buzzes and informs them, they give it back to the other team, understandable but wrong by rule. Next night, my buddy gives a girl a T in the first quarter for having an earring in, absolutely wrong, and how could they not have seen it in warmups. His partner gives a coach two T's within 2 seconds for a couple of inaudible comments, not cursing he said, his justification was the coach was down by 20 and "wanted to go". I doubt it. I am learning about presence and game management from them and teaching them about rules knowledge which they should already know.

<i>What I observed was an arrow mistake, arrow wasn't switched after OT toss, wrong team crosses halfcourt with ball,table buzzes and informs them, they give it back to the other team, understandable but wrong by rule.</I>

You completely lost me here. What exactly happened?

Z

Ok, red gets jump in OT, jump ball with :48 left, arrow points to red, red inbounds ball crosses halfcourt. Table buzzes, tells officials the arrow was wrong. They give the ball back to white on the baseline. According to page 46 of the casebook under "Arrow mistake", this is the incorrect procedure. As I stated, it was understandable in the situation to me, but my point was they didn't know the rule.

There are plenty of rules that everyone should know but they don't. In fact, there are a lot more who don't know them that there are that do. I never said any rule of ignorance was okay and I'm not excusing the guy for missing the call, just pointing out to the youngster that we all make mistakes as we learn and he will to. Nobody becomes a rules guru overnight.

He11, we've got NCAA D1 officials who are giving traveling signals on spot violations. Don't you think they should know better? Yet we had people taking up for them. I'm just saying that this is probably a young official that may be getting a few varsity games but obviously doesn't have it all down pat yet. Not everyone has the opportunity to attend clinics or participate in a forum such as this.

It's okay if you don't agree but that's JMHO.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 24th, 2003 at 10:47 AM]

Using a signal that is improper (or, at least, that many people think is improper) is an entirely different animal. People are human, sure. People make mistakes, sure. And very few refs know the application of every rule in every possible situation. Of course. But there are indubitably basic rules that anyone reffing at the varsity level should know. We can debate which rules those are, but IMHO, the rules governing movement on OOB plays is one of them.

You obviously haven't read the other throw-in thread. :D

Actually it was an older guy that's being doing this for quite a few years.

Re: Don't be so judgmental
 

Yes, you're right my coach didn't know the rule either but I thought that was expected of "howler monkeys." Officials should know better.