Travel??? while OOB

[Nevadaref]

Did anyone else see the official in the St. Josephs/Rhode Island game call, AND GIVE THE SIGNAL FOR, traveling when a player left the designated throw-in spot on the endline?
Someone call in the firing squad!
Is this what I need to call to get picked up by a D-I Men's conference?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Did anyone else see the official in the St. Josephs/Rhode Island game call, AND GIVE THE SIGNAL FOR, traveling when a player left the designated throw-in spot on the endline?
Someone call in the firing squad!
Is this what I need to call to get picked up by a D-I Men's conference?

I saw that game and what sticks in my mind is the official
bending down, touching the spot for the throw-in and holding that position for 2 or 3 seconds. This
throw in actually took place in the very hectic last seconds of the game. Everyone in the gym and in TV land knew the
offense could not run the line. The official in question
deserves a gold star on his whistle for how he administered that throw-in. And all you saw was the travel signal?

[Nevadaref]

I only saw the highlights on ESPN. The commentator said and so-and-so is called for traveling. So I immediately looked at the official and sure enough he was giving the travel signal. I was irate, since even I know that the dribbling and traveling rules do not apply during a throw-in. How this official could not know one of the Basketball Rules Fundamentals baffles me.
As for kneeling down and pointing at the spot for 2 or 3 seconds, I did see this too, but on the highlights this action was shown after the play and the call, so I thought that the official was doing this to justify the call.
If you saw the whole game, I will accept your description of the events.
You did see the travel signal, right?

[Rich]

This focusing on minor details such as this is what annoys me about message boards. The last time crap like this came up was when someone insisted that a coach doesn't "call" timeout, he only "requests" one. What baloney.

I don't care what signal the official gave; I care more about the game management aspects brought up in the second post.

It's a violation. The penalty for a violation is a turnover and a spot throw in. If you want to hang the guy for making an incorrect signal, go ahead -- I'd rather examine why this gentleman is regarded high enough to work D-I basketball.

I watched some officials work on Friday night. I had my first JV game in a month so I stayed and watched the boys' varsity game -- these guys work a college schedule as well. Did some college mechanics get mixed in, such as blowing the whistle before the lead put the ball in play and walking towards the table while reporting? Yes. Were they the best officials I've seen all season? Yes. Was I the ONLY person in the gym to recognize the minor mechanical differences? Yes.

Rich

[Nevadaref]

Rich,
You are clearly one of those presence guys. But seriously, the improper signal bothers me for two reasons. First, I wonder what other minor details of the rules book this official doesn't know. You know as well as I do that the selection process for college officials is very political and often based on who you know, not what you know. I guess I am just sick of the politics.
Secondly, him being wrong on TV and the ESPN highlights that will be seen all over the country make life that much harder for the rest of us. Now we will have coaches screaming for a travel when a player jumps up and comes back down with the ball during a throw-in and they will be sure that they are correct because they saw a travel called during a throw-in on TV. Those at the top, who are very visible, must serve as educators to the general public about the game and examples for the rest of us. It is bad enough that the announcers (such as Bill Walton) don't have a clue about the rules, we don't need our fellow officials perpetuating misconceptions as well.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Did some college mechanics get mixed in, such as blowing the whistle before the lead put the ball in play and walking towards the table while reporting? Yes.

Rich, I take it these officials work NCAA women's ball? Because those mechanics are not used in men's games. Just checking

Chuck

[Rich]

I've never had a coach want traveling (complete with a pivot foot, etc.) on a throw-in. I've had them yell "traveling" when the player was precariously close to violating the three-foot provision of a spot throw in, though.

I know what they mean. Most of the time coaches are harmless, clueless, or both. I mean, I had one guy asking for traveling throughout a girls' game when the girls had their pivot foot nailed to the floor.

How about when coaches want traveling when there's a dribble? I've found that most of the time they want a PALMING violation called in that situation, but they just don't know the proper terminology.

It used to bother me, but as I get older those things bother me less. I want a partner who has presence and can work the game. Works his primary and has good off-ball coverage. I like good mechanics, but they are down the list for me.

Some of the top dogs of Men's D-I basketball have the worst mechanics I've seen. And are still outstanding officials deserving of their schedules.

Rich

[zebraman]

I'm w/ Nevada Ref on this one. It isn't that his mechanics are poor, it's that he doesn't know the rule. He's doing D-1 college games and he thinks that it's traveling to go outside the 3-foot wide throw-in spot. Come on! What's he going to call next, an over the back or reach-in foul?

Z

[Mark Dexter]

I think I might know this ref - we had a "toe barely on the line" OOB call Saturday, and he knelt to point at the line. Kinda odd but kinda cool.

Also, you don't get to D-I without knowing that you can't travel during a throw-in. Are there refs who use the wrong signal? Of course (I even saw it once during the NCAA Tournament last year!), but I'd be willing to bet that 99% of those who use the signal know the correct ruling.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I only saw the highlights on ESPN. The commentator said and so-and-so is called for traveling. So I immediately looked at the official and sure enough he was giving the travel signal. I was irate, since even I know that the dribbling and traveling rules do not apply during a throw-in. How this official could not know one of the Basketball Rules Fundamentals baffles me.
As for kneeling down and pointing at the spot for 2 or 3 seconds, I did see this too, but on the highlights this action was shown after the play and the call, so I thought that the official was doing this to justify the call.
If you saw the whole game, I will accept your description of the events.
You did see the travel signal, right?

He bent down & pointed to the spot twice, once for each
team, in exactly the same manner. And yes, he used the
travelling signal.

That official was in a position that very, very (very) few
of us will ever be in - in front of millions of people he
had to communicate a rare and game changing call with a
limited set of signals. Everyone, including you, knows
that the travel signal is understood to signify a throw-in
violation. The way he handled the entire sequence shows
why he's working at that level. (And I think it is
laughable for anyone here to believe the official does not
know the rules.)

[stripes]

Originally posted by zebraman
I'm w/ Nevada Ref on this one. It isn't that his mechanics are poor, it's that he doesn't know the rule. He's doing D-1 college games and he thinks that it's traveling to go outside the 3-foot wide throw-in spot. Come on! What's he going to call next, an over the back or reach-in foul?

Z

What do youu mean he didn't know the rule? He knew that it is a violation to pass the ball to a teammate who is OOB on a spot throw in. That is the violation he penalized. He used an incorrect mechanic--hardly a big deal in my book. I'm with Rich about the minor details and hair splitting that takes place on this board, I find it tiresome.

Being hired by a D1 conference is political to a certain extent, but if you do not have enough ability to be there, all of the politicking in the world won't keep you there. This whole incident registers in the "not a very big deal" catagory for me.

[rockyroad]

I would have to agree with Dan on this one...he had to communicate that call to both coaches and all the players, so he used a signal that would accomplish that...to say he doesn't know the rule is a pretty big step to be taking here...did his evaluator question him about the signal after the game - yeah, probably...but I bet he was also given an attaboy for getting it communicated without any fuss or coaches going nuts...

[Rich]

Chuck,

Yes. NCAA Women. In my opinion, the superior set of mechanics and without a doubt the superior mechanics manual.

Rich

[zebraman]

What do youu mean he didn't know the rule? He knew that it is a violation to pass the ball to a teammate who is OOB on a spot throw in. That is the violation he penalized.

If he just had a brain cramp and just gave the wrong signal in his excitement, no problem. If he thinks that it's traveling to move outside the 3-foot wide spot, then I would tend to think that his rule knowledge is questionable at best.

Z

[mick]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Did some college mechanics get mixed in, such as blowing the whistle before the lead put the ball in play and walking towards the table while reporting?
Rich

Yes, Rich,
Both of these mechanics are clearly specified for NCAA Women.
mick