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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 01:53pm
JLK JLK is offline
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VB game last night. Tied with less 15 seconds to go. V1 drives lanes and charges into H1. Pretty easy PC call. As I am going to report foul, V2 comes up to me, gets fairly close into my face (doesn't touch me) and says "Bulls**t" to me. Pretty loud in the gym but I'm almost positive on what was said to me. So I T'd him up. Needless to say, Home team won. After game, vistor's head coach comes up and notes that the player was just asking what the call was. I told him that if I had heard it wrong, I apologize, but part of the reason the T was given was because of his aggressive nature towards me when I was trying to report foul.

I wondering if I should handled this differently due to nature of game? I know players verbally abusing officials should not be tolerated but what about physically aggression? Let me know what you think.

Thanks
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 01:57pm
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Sounds to me like you nailed it. The coach should reserve his anger for the player, and I'm betting the player got it after the coach settled down and reviewed the situation!
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Old Wed Jan 08, 2003, 02:19pm
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That is why a team has a coach, to diplomatically question calls. If a player says BS to me he is calling me a liar. WHACK. IMO I wouldn't admit that you might not have heard the kid right. Tell the coach he swore at you and that is that.
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 08:51am
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Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
That is why a team has a coach, to diplomatically question calls. If a player says BS to me he is calling me a liar. WHACK. IMO I wouldn't admit that you might not have heard the kid right. Tell the coach he swore at you and that is that.
I agree. Coach he said this....
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 09:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
That is why a team has a coach, to diplomatically question calls.
Excuse me? The purpose of having a coach is so somebody on the bench can question calls?!?! That's a load of manure. The reason a team has a coach is to coach his/her players, PERIOD. I am almost always willing to listen to a coach who asks for an explanation. I am almost never willing to listen to a coach who is questioning my call.

This is like saying that the fans pay their money, so they should be able to ride the officials and have their say.

Chuck
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 09:39am
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Chuck I agree totally about the coach comment but what can really be done about fans unless they become profane or violent it seems to me they do get to pay their money and get to say what they want.
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 09:48am
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Good point, Jeff. I was actually thinking of abuse, more than just "having their say". If a fan yells out "You suck!" or curses, and you know who it was, I wouldn't have a problem asking security, a police officer, the AD, or the home coach to remove the spectator. That's what I was trying to say. Paying your $2 doesn't entitle you to abuse officials or taunt players.

Chuck
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 10:02am
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Chuck,

Please let me get this perfectly clear:

You would have security eject a fan if you could identify them and they had said "You Suck!" in regards to your performance?

Is this a correct statement?
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 10:39am
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Re: Chuck,

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
Please let me get this perfectly clear:

You would have security eject a fan if you could identify them and they had said "You Suck!" in regards to your performance?

Is this a correct statement?
Why not? (And BTW Chuck didn't write said "You Suck!", he wrote If a fan yells out "You suck!" or curses.)
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 11:12am
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Re: Chuck,

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
You would have security eject a fan if you could identify them and they had said "You Suck!" in regards to your performance?
Hmmmmmm. . . after some minor reconsideration, I'll change it to "If a fan repeatedly yells, 'You suck!' or curses. . ."

Yes, that fan needs to go home and think about his life and priorities. Ok, it's not my job to make anybody think about his/her life; but at the very least, the families around the fan should not be forced to listen to that. So, yes, I'd have no problem tossing him/her, especially if cursing is involved.

Chuck
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 11:15am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Good point, Jeff. I was actually thinking of abuse, more than just "having their say". If a fan yells out "You suck!" or curses, and you know who it was, I wouldn't have a problem asking security, a police officer, the AD, or the home coach to remove the spectator. That's what I was trying to say. Paying your $2 doesn't entitle you to abuse officials or taunt players.

Chuck
I had this situation last night (afternoon) in a MS G/B doubleheader. The girls game was a blow out. Yet some fan, at least I am assuming, kept saying something EVERYTIME down the floor. He never used profanity, unless you call Crap and Friggin profanity, but he was louder then anyone else in the gym and getting very annoying more and more brash in his statements. At the end of the 3rd we were in a free throw situation and he kept going on and on how we were not giving "his" team a fair shake with the fouls, and that this game was a little to "fast pace" for me and I he didn't think I was "up to speed" on all the rules. (3 seconds and "over" the back particularly) SO before the lead (his 3rd game EVER) administered the free throw I blow my whistle turn my head to the side and say "Sir, if you want to stay, you are going to have to settle down." He gave me the "I paid my two dollars.." spiel and I just repeated what I said and he said " YOu are doing a good job I am just trying to help you out." I said "Thank you for the offer, but I don't need any help, but we do have openings in our association for next season if you are interested". And the FT's are shot and off we go. He was a little testy for awhile, but that was it. I did notice that several school officials (visiting team) were sitting around him during the boys game however.
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 12:47pm
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Thank you

Chuck:

Thank you for the clarification.

Having worked both baseball and basketball at many levels I have not seem "many" fans ejected (those that actually did not come on the field or the court).

Many years ago I was at a site waiting to work the second game of a Christmas Double Header.

After a few very emotional calls against one of the teams (all made by one specific official) there was a free throw situation where the "culprit" was lead standing under the basket during a multiple throw.

A small, older man moves out of the crowd and walks right down the end line . . . he approaches very near the "offending" official before anyone on the court sees him.

He reaches out quickly and takes the officials glasses right from his face.

He calmly takes out a hankerchief and cleans the glasses and then hands them back to the official.

While the crowd gave the old man a standing ovavtion security ejected him from the arena.

Some times the true stories are the funniest.

Tee
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 02:44pm
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
That is why a team has a coach, to diplomatically question calls.
Excuse me? The purpose of having a coach is so somebody on the bench can question calls?!?! That's a load of manure. The reason a team has a coach is to coach his/her players, PERIOD. I am almost always willing to listen to a coach who asks for an explanation. I am almost never willing to listen to a coach who is questioning my call.

This is like saying that the fans pay their money, so they should be able to ride the officials and have their say.

Chuck
I have no problem w/ a coach who calmly at the correct point in time calmly discusses what I called. This is called building a rappor w/ coaches and becoming a good official. I will not let them use this time to "work" me. If they remain calm I have no problem answering them. This is not to say that I will listen or even acknowledge them at every whim, but if they have a legitamite question I will answer it. This is what I meant by this post. Or I suppose I could be like some officials and percieve every opinion they vioce as being out of control and Whack them for breathing heavy. Every good official I have watched on TV seems to have a few seconds for a coach that comes to them in a (sometimes not so calm) manner and the official is usually effective in diffusing a heated situation. I would rather have coaches know I am willing to listen and work with them instead of seeming standoffish and on a pedistal above them.

Just my two cents.
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 05:19pm
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Chuck
I don't think he meant to say that the reason a team has a coach is to provide a person to question calls. What I believe he was saying is that, if a call is to be questioned, it should be by the head coach and in a diplomatic manner. I certainly feel I have that right, but that I should exercise it with care and with diplomacy. And if I show you respect and courtesy, I expect the same from you.
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Old Thu Jan 09, 2003, 11:09pm
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Re: Thank you

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
A small, older man moves out of the crowd and walks right down the end line . . . he approaches very near the "offending" official before anyone on the court sees him.

He reaches out quickly and takes the officials glasses right from his face.

He calmly takes out a hankerchief and cleans the glasses and then hands them back to the official.

While the crowd gave the old man a standing ovavtion security ejected him from the arena.
:-D

I don't know - I might keep this guy in the gym - seems to be having fun with the game and enjoying it!
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