Customer Service ??????

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Sounds like a version of "smile and nod." Well played by him, it seems.

Originally Posted by tref

Game, set, match! *if advancing in that manner is acceptable to the individual*

Personally, I choose not to seek but I will "smile & nod" when feedback is offered.

Of course, who's to do say he wouldn't have advanced without the phone calls?

Luckily around here coaches don't have a say. I know 2 or 3 have given me the "unapproachable" tag.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I know 2 or 3 have given me the "unapproachable" tag.

Let me guess, they must've lost a particular game that you worked

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I have a friend who got to work the state baseball tournament last year. Great umpire, but he decided to take it a step farther by calling/contacting the coaches after every ballgame and asking them to let him know how he could improve and that he was really interested in their opinions. He's admitted to me that he's just "playing the system" since it appears that coaches ratings is the main (if not the only) criteria in deciding who gets to work deep in the playoffs. And his plan worked very well -- his ratings were through the roof.

This sounds to me like a man who seriously gives a damn about his performance, and is willing to take the extra step to succeed.

A lot of companies have become successful by asking for feedback, evaluating it, and applying the correct information that will cause growth. It sounds to me like this guy is taking a page from that book.

As much as some of us like to make broad-brush statements about coaches and what they don't know, the truth is do indeed serve them, among others on the court/field. Those that serve better, in any field, typically get to serve more. The tricky balance, though, is serving the game, while satisfying those associated with it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Game, set, match! *if advancing in that manner is acceptable to the individual*

Personally, I choose not to seek but I will "smile & nod" when feedback is offered.

Agreed, but I can't help but chuckle at the fact that he has, essentially, "worked" the coaches.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

This sounds to me like a man who seriously gives a damn about his performance, and is willing to take the extra step to succeed.

A lot of companies have become successful by asking for feedback, evaluating it, and applying the correct information that will cause growth. It sounds to me like this guy is taking a page from that book.

As much as some of us like to make broad-brush statements about coaches and what they don't know, the truth is do indeed serve them, among others on the court/field. Those that serve better, in any field, typically get to serve more. The tricky balance, though, is serving the game, while satisfying those associated with it.

No, he wasn't trying to improve (at least not with this move). I think you missed the point. He appropriately gave the coaches' comments the credence they deserved; none. However, they gave him better scores merely because he had asked for their input; not because he made the changes they suggested.

They got worked.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

This sounds to me like a man who seriously gives a damn about his performance, and is willing to take the extra step to succeed.

Extra steps to succeed in the officiating field should be attending quality camps to be critiqued by people who know what they are talking about. Honest self assessment through film breakdown improves ones skillset as well. JMO

Originally Posted by bainsey

A lot of companies have become successful by asking for feedback, evaluating it, and applying the correct information that will cause growth. It sounds to me like this guy is taking a page from that book.

Those businesses differ from officiating as they dont service them in contests where one client is sure to win & the other is sure to lose. Big difference!
The customer is always right, doesnt apply on my 94x50... sorry!

Originally Posted by bainsey

As much as some of us like to make broad-brush statements about coaches and what they don't know, the truth is do indeed serve them, among others on the court/field. Those that serve better, in any field, typically get to serve more. The tricky balance, though, is serving the game, while satisfying those associated with it.

Which one is it & do you coach???

I serve in this order:

1. The GAME
2. Partners
3. Myself

while satisfying ALL associated with The GAME (until one team loses or doesn't get their way or gets a bad call or etc, etc)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

No, he wasn't trying to improve (at least not with this move). I think you missed the point. He appropriately gave the coaches' comments the credence they deserved; none. However, they gave him better scores merely because he had asked for their input; not because he made the changes they suggested.

They got worked.

Exactly. My friend went to the Jim Evans umpire school and actually turned down an offer to work in organized baseball. He's an outstanding umpire.

But that doesn't matter around here. Here, it's number of years of service (and if those years are in another state it doesn't show up anywhere) and coach ratings. And his coach ratings were so high, they ignored their usual #1 qualification, years of service.

I've watched the state tournament on the Internet. A few decent umpires there (and those have connections of some kind), but I'd say 9 of the 12 are guys in their late 50s or 60s or 70s who can't move and whose best days were (if ever) a long time ago. Sectional crew chiefs wearing jackets bought in the 1980s from Kmart and using balloon protectors behind the plate. Consider it a gold watch assignment, which, to me, is despicable. The kids and the game deserve better.

I've had a conversation with a coach who's also a very good umpire. He hires his own non-conference officials and for those games he only hires from a very small group of people (and I'm happy to be one of them). I asked him once about how he rates umpires and he admitted he gave good ratings to some very poor umpires because they're "nice guys" and he doesn't want to hurt them. Then he said, "But I give all you guys the top ratings."

And this is from a guy who actually can tell me all of the bad habits and bad things these guys do on the field -- most coaches don't have a clue. So they give good ratings to the old-timers that they know well (and who would never make a call such as batter's interference or a balk or take care of unsporting behavior) and give lesser ratings to officials who feel that's all part of the job.

So, no, I won't play the game. I'm still rated very well (just not in the stratosphere), but it's unlikely I'll get the call anytime soon. I'm only a 9th year umpire (with 15 years in other states and that doesn't count).

[tref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed, but I can't help but chuckle at the fact that he has, essentially, "worked" the coaches.

Sergio Roma: You've been mind-fu&%ed before?
Aaron Green: I don't think so.
Sergio Roma: I'm mind-fu&%ing you right now.
Aaron Green: You are?
Sergio Roma: Can't you feel my d&%k fu&%ing your mind?
Aaron Green: No, I can't really feel anything.
Sergio Roma: See? That's it. That's the art of it. I'm mind-fu&%ing the sh!t out of you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

So, no, I won't play the game. I'm still rated very well (just not in the stratosphere), but it's unlikely I'll get the call anytime soon. I'm only a 9th year umpire (with 15 years in other states and that doesn't count).

That sounds like an overall problem with your system. We have a ratings system to and I have never called, contacted or asked a coach to rate us other than when we have to give an ID number. And it has never hurt me once. In all three of my sports I have worked deep in the playoffs in all of them and never once had to ask for a rating or a Top 15 list selection from a school. Then again that rating system we use is only a small part of our overall system and selection. And I am sure I work at places where someone does not like the job I do or do not like the positions I take with them. I do not go around worrying about making them happy if I am doing my job properly. Also we should never be asked to do such things in the first place. Which at this time I do like our system because of that fact. But that does not mean that people do not try to get better ratings by doing what you said your friend does. Usually that does not work that well for most or what they appear to expect. And certainly do not all of a sudden work the State Finals as well.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That sounds like an overall problem with your system. We have a ratings system to and I have never called, contacted or asked a coach to rate us other than when we have to give an ID number. And it has never hurt me once. In all three of my sports I have worked deep in the playoffs in all of them and never once had to ask for a rating or a Top 15 list selection from a school. Then again that rating system we use is only a small part of our overall system and selection. And I am sure I work at places where someone does not like the job I do or do not like the positions I take with them. I do not go around worrying about making them happy if I am doing my job properly. Also we should never be asked to do such things in the first place. Which at this time I do like our system because of that fact. But that does not mean that people do not try to get better ratings by doing what you said your friend does. Usually that does not work that well for most or what they appear to expect. And certainly do not all of a sudden work the State Finals as well.

Peace

I worked in the Illinois system for a while as I was licensed there in basketball from 2004-2008. I only worked 6-10 games there a season, usually during holiday tournaments, so I never got concerned with the details (knowing I'd never work enough games to get chosen for the postseason). But it does seem like a better, albeit much more complicated system.

We have 6 levels of official here. To be a Master (the top level) in baseball, you only have to work 8 varsity contests in an entire season. I have 8-game WEEKS. We have people assigned deep into the playoffs that work mainly FR and JV games all season long. In basketball, you only need 16 varsity contests to be a master. A female official working only girls games only needs 8. To be a "master" official.

Last season, I was not assigned a regional final, but picked one up when an umpire got injured. My partner that day was a guy that drove almost 2 hours to the game and when I got there told me he had never worked a Division 1 (big school) varsity game. He had only worked 4 varsity games all season. He was rated by 3 coaches and once the high and low were dropped off (as they do here), he was rated a 5 out of 6 and was considered a "highly rated umpire."

Needless to say, the first thing I said to him was, "I'll work the plate." He had one call on the bases and missed it. He was constantly out of position, but he knew what time it was cause he was wearing a wristwatch on the field. Nice guy, but awful umpire.

I used to judge my worth as an official by things like "post-season assignments" but I'm finally learning that as long as I live here I'll need to find some other measuring stick. Fortunately, I have no shortage of good regular season games to work.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by tref

The customer is always right, doesnt apply on my 94x50... sorry!

No need to apologize, and I certainly don't disagree. (The customer isn't always right, anyway, but that's another story.)

Which one is it ["The tricky balance, though, is serving the game, while satisfying those associated with it"] & do you coach???

To the latter, no. To the former, like it or not, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

From my perspective, this isn't about worrying about if your calls are making people happy. (If you worry about such things, get out of officiating.) This has more to do with interpersonal relations, and effectively dealing with people who question what you do. In many fields, those with better interpersonal relations (often times, "working the system") tend to be more successful.

That's the brilliance of Rich's friend's approach. Those that don't ask tend to come across as apathetic. When it comes time for those in power to decide who gets what assignments, those that appear to serve better will typically get the nod. It may not be fair in some minds, but few things are in the business world. And when we want those assignments, we are looking to do business.

[Camron Rust]

We've got a few officials around here that work the coaches in a similar manner. One got sanctioned a couple of years ago too. Our coaches have a partial say in who goes to the tourney and there are a few who are not afraid to either throw their partners under the bus or otherwise cozy up to the coaches for a few more coaches votes.

[tref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

This has more to do with interpersonal relations, and effectively dealing with people who question what you do. In many fields, those with better interpersonal relations (often times, "working the system") tend to be more successful.

When it comes time for those in power to decide who gets what assignments, those that appear to serve better will typically get the nod. It may not be fair in some minds, but few things are in the business world. And when we want those assignments, we are looking to do business.

I agree with all of the above, guess I'm just blessed to be in a area where coaches dont call the shots.

If, in the assignors opinion (regular season), combined opinions of peer/coach/area director/assignor (post-season) & the executive boards opinion (State) you can work, communicate effectively & take care of business on & off the court, you will work. PERIOD.

My point was, coaches who lost a heated game that you worked arent qualified to critique us... they have a dog in the race & are obviously biased.

Working the system is not a bad thing. Some may say I have done just that to get where I am in a short amount of time. But my working of the system does not consist of calls to coaches, brown-nosing the bosses or the like.

Hard work, having the right people in your corner, being a go-getter & positive self-marketing strategies gets it done!!

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

We've got a few officials around here that work the coaches in a similar manner. One got sanctioned a couple of years ago too. Our coaches have a partial say in who goes to the tourney and there are a few who are not afraid to either throw their partners under the bus or otherwise cozy up to the coaches for a few more coaches votes.

I've seen those-types as well, but if the talent is not there, that harsh fall that is certain to occur is much quicker than their unrespectable rise to the top.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by bainsey

This sounds to me like a man who seriously gives a damn about his performance, and is willing to take the extra step to succeed.

A lot of companies have become successful by asking for feedback, evaluating it, and applying the correct information that will cause growth. It sounds to me like this guy is taking a page from that book.

As much as some of us like to make broad-brush statements about coaches and what they don't know, the truth is do indeed serve them, among others on the court/field. Those that serve better, in any field, typically get to serve more. The tricky balance, though, is serving the game, while satisfying those associated with it.

Are you kiddin ???????


He wants to get better!!!!! Then he needs to go to a clinic. As an assigner, if my guys were to appproach a coach that often they wouldn't even see a varsity schedule. Do your job and go home. I can only imagine what the coaches had to say that made that official better.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bainsey

To the latter, no. To the former, like it or not, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
That's the brilliance of Rich's friend's approach. Those that don't ask tend to come across as apathetic. When it comes time for those in power to decide who gets what assignments, those that appear to serve better will typically get the nod. It may not be fair in some minds, but few things are in the business world. And when we want those assignments, we are looking to do business.

Sorry, I am never asking a person that has never officiating a single game in their life what they think of my performance. Even if they tell me I did a good job I still take it with a big grain of salt as they are not in a position to evaluate my performance as an official/umpire. And there is something wrong with a system that encourages that or assumes that the coaches should have the say. They are often clueless and do not have to do the things we have to do just to know basic rules. Unless I have not read something somewhere, but what test or clinics must they attend to be a coach? Heck in my state it still is a running joke that the varsity coaches send the freshman coach to the rules meeting so that the schools fulfill the requirement for the school. Officials cannot pass of that responsibility in most cases so why would I ask a person that has not been through the fire how I did? If you believe them when they tell you that you are good, you must believe them when they tell you are terrible.

Peace