A bad night and a long post

[mick]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

As I recall Bert actually gave Davis a shove in the chest to get him out of his face before hitting him the first time.

At least once. Mike Davis went back for more and got called for three-seconds before getting T'd.
Bert's a hero of mine and now that bard got that first one out....

[RecRef]

Originally posted by rockyroad

OK...I am confused...if he is out on the court - why didn't you T him immediately??? Why would you ask twice and then tell a third time and then let him pop off on top of all that before T'ing him??

I will say it again - the reason so many of these coaches act like jack-a@@#@ is because we let them...

Yes! and at the point he said, ""That was still a BS call. I'm off the floor, what are you going to do about it now?"" he would have been directed to leave the court. This is a challenge to the authority of the officials and IMO is a flagrant T.

[LarryS]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RecRef

Yes! and at the point he said, ""That was still a BS call. I'm off the floor, what are you going to do about it now?"" he would have been directed to leave the court. This is a challenge to the authority of the officials and IMO is a flagrant T.

While I agree it could be considered flagrant, Sleeper and I are in TX and ejecting a coach after the first T would probably get you and the coach a required trip to Austin during a weekday to discuss it with the UIL & TASO (apparently they have not been made aware of the conference call technology). Not saying they would not side with the official, but that trip is at your expense and means a day off work (which may also cost you cash)

Kinda makes me really work on keeping it to one T per coach unless the report to the State will be obvious...which this may have been.

[rockyroad]

MAY have been obvious...here's the report:

The first T Coach ______ was assessed was for running onto the court during the game.

The second T - and ejection - Coach ____ was assessed was for making the comment, and I quote, "That was a bull**** call."

End of report...what is there to question??

[Jay R]

Originally posted by LarryS


While I agree it could be considered flagrant, Sleeper and I are in TX and ejecting a coach after the first T would probably get you and the coach a required trip to Austin during a weekday to discuss it with the UIL & TASO (apparently they have not been made aware of the conference call technology). Not saying they would not side with the official, but that trip is at your expense and means a day off work (which may also cost you cash)

Kinda makes me really work on keeping it to one T per coach unless the report to the State will be obvious...which this may have been.
[/B]

Glad I'm not in Texas. I can understand that refs and coaches need to be accountable. However, does it not seem like this is going a bit too far. I don't see my boss giving me the day off for this type of situation.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

As I recall Bert actually gave Davis a shove in the chest to get him out of his face before hitting him the first time.

I don't remember seeing that! (Of course, many players tell me I need new glasses . . .)

I do, however, remember Smith having to untangle himself from an IU player who was holding him back, so to speak.

[ronald]

I saw the T the ref gave and thought it was pretty. He gave it to him beautifully. I need to get the replay so I can practice that form. I liked it.

I lived in Texas and if you eject a player or coach, you do have to write a report. For a coach, I do remember hearing something about going to Austin. ALso recall softball umps telling me to avoid a coach ejection at all coasts for that reason.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ronald
I saw the T the ref gave and thought it was pretty. He gave it to him beautifully. I need to get the replay so I can practice that form. I liked it.

Everyone but the French judge gave it a 10. I have definately been practicing to put it into my repertoire (less than a week until I'm back to calling games!)

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by bard
First, apologies to mick. I've always tried to follow mick's advice on preventive officiating. Last night, I didn't do so good.

Let me start by saying yesterday was my first day back at work after being incredibly sick for 2 weeks, and I really should have found someone to do these 7 A&B boy's games for me. But, I'd already had to cancel enough games, and I wanted to get back out there...

I don't blame you. Sounds like you had some tough games too. Great job...just a few suggestions.

A game first. Visitor coach rides us, even though he wins a blowout by 30 or 40. I've had him before, and know what he's like, but I've "managed" him before.

B game. Visitors have a different coach, but A team coach is still on the bench. First half, home team has 6 players on the court after a dead ball. We catch this before the ball is live, and we eventually get one kid off the court. I start to administer the throwin, but notice my partner is now in a discussion with Visitor A coach. My partner backs away and I again go to administer. I happen to look up, and my P is again exchanging words with the coach. My P holds up the stop sign a couple of times. The coach, BTW, is standing up and clearly giving my P an earful. My P is a young guy who has never given anything other than an administrative T, and he does not give one here.

Did you put the ball in to get him away from the coach?

We finally go on, and I get the scoop at half time. Visitor A coach wanted us to call a T for home team having six players. He then insists that it is not our responsibility to count the players. Now the visitors were leading 3-0 after 1 quarter and about 14-2 at half. By this point, I'm whipped. I'm hacking and wheezing and not thinking clearly at all. Both visitor coaches have been on us all night.

Did you talk to them early saying something like, "Coach, we aren't going to listen to you question our calls all night."

Early 3rd quarter, and we're calling it pretty tight to try and settle things down. Home player shoots 2, and I'm trail. 2nd shot smacks backboard and, in retrospect, probably missed the rim. (It was close.) I didn't call it, but probably should have. Resulting melee is a jump ball with visitors getting the AP. Visitor coaches are hopping (literally) mad.

I agree - 1st T.

We ignore them and put ball in play.

About 90 seconds later, I report a foul, and Visitor A coach comes up to me while I'm reporting asking if the foul shot hit the rim.

Maybe instead of a stop sign, you could say, "I'll come talk to you in a moment coach." Either that or just say yes.

I'm still reporting the foul, so I hold up the stop sign and say, "Coach, sit down." I do this again adding to the coach that he needs to "Drop it."

He continues on and I give my first T to a coach in my brief 2 years of experience. I didn't lose my temper, but my patience was shot.

Here is where you might have been able to get away from the table and administer your freethrows.

We have a brief discussion about why he got the T, and then he starts back on the darn freethrow. I give him the 2nd T and say, "That's it coach. You need to leave the gym." I did not lose my temper at any time. The coach leaves and chats with the AD awhile on his way out.

In retrospect, the 2nd T came very fast. I don't think I would have given it if I wasn't feeling so tough. I also thought of the question often asked on this board, "Did it make the game better?" It was like night and day. The game improved tremendously. I swear the kids played better after this guy was gone, although the remaining coach was still a jerk.

Even if you could have avoided them, sounds like they both earned them.

After the game, the AD affirms to me that the coach's behavior was entirely inappropriate for a 7th grade B game. I'm left thinking I should have made a better effort to difuse the situation before it got to a T, but my brain just couldn't process the situation quickly enough to figure it out.

Sorry for the long post, but it helps me to review the situation and think of how I could/should have handled it better. I just probably should have found a replacement since I still didn't really have my legs under me. Hopefully I'll do better tonight!

[bard]

Bert Smith looked great when he did it! But I suspect it took Bert a shorter time to hit his whistle twice (in front of how many millions of people?) than it took Bard to hit his once.

Nah--I waited 6 quarters to give him the first one! ;-)

Thanks for the input guys. Last night went much better, although I'm still wheezin'. Had one intentional foul, and the crowd really groaned, but it was obvious--2 hands on the shoulders from behind and a really hard backward pull. Shot still went in, too. Heard nothing from the coach. He knew it and took the player out.