NFHS is a little ahead of its time

[Mark Padgett]

Got my Fed publications catalog in the mail today. The Rules Book 2011-12 is listed at $7.20 but their website says it won't be available until September. Oh yeah - I can order a "Rules PowerPoint 2011-12" on CD for "only" $49.95. I think I'll pass.

[Adam]

September? Are they waiting for the NFL CBA to be negotiated?

[Nevadaref]

I received a copy of all of the proposed rule changes and editorial changes today from my state office.

I noticed that the wording of the proposal to alter the definition team control included at the disposal for a throw-in, but not for a FT. Also, there was no mention of altering the backcourt rules to maintain the current rulings.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I received a copy of all of the proposed rule changes and editorial changes today from my state office.

I noticed that the wording of the proposal to alter the definition team control included at the disposal for a throw-in, but not for a FT. Also, there was no mention of altering the backcourt rules to maintain the current rulings.

Interesting:
TC would exist during RPP for a TI but not a FT.
I'd still bet they make changes to the backcourt rule to maintain the current situation.

[Camron Rust]

On a FT, it doesn't really matter. How many times in your career have you called a foul with the ball in the hands of a FT shooter?

As for the 10 second count, it really doesn't matter either way. Sure, it is different, but not enough such that it really matters. It would very rarely come into play.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

On a FT, it doesn't really matter. How many times in your career have you called a foul with the ball in the hands of a FT shooter?

As for the 10 second count, it really doesn't matter either way. Sure, it is different, but not enough such that it really matters. It would very rarely come into play.

Actually, TC already exists once the shooter has the ball, so the only point where it would matter is if you called a foul during an RPP situation with the ball at the disposal. As Nevada worded the post, once you start your 5 second count on a TI, TC begins. Could be an RPP situation, or could be a purposeful delay following a made basket.

I'm not so concerned about the 10 second or 3 second counts, although they would change. I'm more concerned about the following plays.

TI pass tipped by the offense in the FC into the BC where it's retrieved.

TI pass bounces in the FC before being retrieved by the offense in the BC.

Unless I'm missing something, these two situations would be a violation if TC is already established on the TI.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

...
TI pass tipped by the offense in the FC into the BC where it's retrieved...

You would be concerned about the 10-second count if the scored was tied, the throw-in started at 0:17, the ball was lands in the backcourt at the 0:16 mark and isn't controlled until the 0:14 mark and Team A is out of time-outs. When the clock reaches 0:05 and Team A still hasn't established the ball in the frontcourt....

I've called enough 10-second violations and had enough coaches scream for 10-second calls to know this is not some abstract, uncommon play that could never happen. I used an end-of-game situation for dramatic effect, but it could be at any time in the game and one coach or the other will want an explanation for call/non-call.

I agree that 3-seconds calls are a non-player for the new throw-in/TC rule...at least until we start routinely calling 3-seconds during interrupted dribbles.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Actually, TC already exists once the shooter has the ball, so the only point where it would matter is if you called a foul during an RPP situation with the ball at the disposal. As Nevada worded the post, once you start your 5 second count on a TI, TC begins. Could be an RPP situation, or could be a purposeful delay following a made basket.

I'm not so concerned about the 10 second or 3 second counts, although they would change. I'm more concerned about the following plays.

TI pass tipped by the offense in the FC into the BC where it's retrieved.

TI pass bounces in the FC before being retrieved by the offense in the BC.

Unless I'm missing something, these two situations would be a violation if TC is already established on the TI.

Since this 'new' rule would be the same as NCAA. Is there a case play in the NCAA book?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Since this 'new' rule would be the same as NCAA. Is there a case play in the NCAA book?

The NCAA has throw-in exceptions for BC violations.

Rule 7 Section 6. Throw-in

Art. 7. When the ball is located out of bounds, the thrower-in may pass the ball into the back court.

Art. 8. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court.

Art. 9. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The NCAA has throw-in exceptions for BC violations.

So are the 2 plays, that Snaqwells has listed, violations?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

So are the 2 plays, that Snaqwells has listed, violations?

Rule 7, Section 6 Throw-In

Art. 8. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court.
Art. 9. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

So are the 2 plays, that Snaqwells has listed, violations?

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Rule 7, Section 6 Throw-In

Art. 8. Regardless of where the throw-in spot is located, the throw-in team may cause the ball to go into the back court.
Art. 9. After the throw-in ends, an inbounds player in the front court who is not in control of the ball may cause the ball to go into the back court.

But without the expressed exceptions, they would be.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

But without the expressed exceptions, they would be.

I'm going to assume they will change the throw-in rule to mimic the NCAA. Of course we already know I would like some new case plays to come with it.

[Camron Rust]

The NCAA rule (and presumably the new NFHS rule) effectively only considers there to be team control for the purposes of determining the penalty for fouls that occur during the throw in. Complete "team control" effectively begins in the historic manner....along with player control. No other element normally implied by team control applies until player control is established inbounds.