Go ahead, shame me....

[lmeadski]

I was coaching my daughters U11 team this weekend at a tournament. In our first game, we had one registered ref, one student from the hosting University as another. Our player, A1, steals ball and heads towards our basket. B1, with great speed, catches up and delivers blow on shot, no call. Our girl crumbles in heap to floor, B1 picks up ball and moves ball back up court, our player still in heap on floor. Ref looks back at our player twice, no whistle to stop play (remember, B1 had no advantage heading up court, only her and A1 were involved in the breakaway). B1 dribbles down through her lane, takes a shot, B2 rebounds, shoots again, we finally gain ball. Our girl is just getting up, eye completely red and a bit swollen from the blow. Finally, whistle blows. I now see how red my players eye is (it wasn't a touch foul, which I thought was obvious on the play), she can't even keep it open, it is watering so much. I look to the patched ref and say, "Stripes, are you going to let play like this go on today?" I didn't have MUCH tone in my voice (but there was some negative inflection). He Ts me up for, in his words, disprespecting him for calling him stripes. Roughly two minutes later, another player of mine takes an elbow on teh chin, bloody lip, comes out of game. Again, no call. Then, in the 3rd period, with two girls on the floor going for loose ball (A2 and B2), B3 dives on the pile, driving her shoulder into A2s chin (who, just got braces on Thursday). Of course, no foul call (jump ball instead), A2 comes up with bloody mouth. So shame on me for calling him stripes (was that truly disrespectful?) and getting lit up (true or false)? And, at what point would this community feel I needed to step up to protect my players' best interest and get into the ref's soup (In a side bar, I calmly approached him at the next dead ball, expressed my concern about the lack of calls with rough play, and he offers: I didn't see it, turns and walks away)?

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 12th, 2006 at 05:23 PM]

[tomegun]

Notify game admin and take your team off the court.

[lmeadski]

notify admin after the game. We didn't comment about anything but the allowance of rough play (their calls on travels and violations were fine). Luckiy, we never had those same refs again.

[Texas Aggie]

Its a myth that officials control rough play, but if there were uncalled fouls, you can approach him during a TO and ask, "can you explain why there was significant contact that was not called a foul?"

Taking your team off the court is never an option.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Its a myth that officials control rough play

I don't think so it is a myth. I have controlled rough play as an official.

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
but if there were uncalled fouls, you can approach him during a TO and ask, "can you explain why there was significant contact that was not called a foul?"

Agreed.

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Taking your team off the court is never an option.

Disagree. There most definitely is a point where you pull your team off the court.

Imeadski: if your players were genuinely getting fouled as your describe, and there was nothing being called, then in my mind, this situation at least points in the direction of taking action into your own hands.

[lmeadski]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
Its a myth that officials control rough play, but if there were uncalled fouls, you can approach him during a TO and ask, "can you explain why there was significant contact that was not called a foul?"

Taking your team off the court is never an option.

Of course we can control hard play: first, by calling all the hard fouls (eventually those players that are committing hard fouls will be benched in foul trouble, and if they are contributors, their coaches will tell them to tone it down), second, by warning players of the risks of overly aggressive or increasingly aggressive play. If they don't heed the warnings, then they get the calls. Of course, that does not always deter players from committing stupid fouls again.

[Time2Ref]

First of all. I am sorry that your player was injured.

We weren't there. We are only getting one side of the story.

I am assuming that the U11 means under 11 years old.

It is obvious that you are mad. It is obvious that you were mad when you made that statement to the ref.

Did you honestly think that if he allowed an intentional foul on your player that he/she would be the type that would admit his/her mistake and change the call when you complained in front of everyone?

Your players look up to you and will learn from your example.

What example do you want to set for your players?

What did you learn from this experience?

How will you change your practice and what will you teach your players from this experience. (have you considered making them wear mouth pieces?, those little plastic things that the football players wear?)

I have no answers for you. But the answers you are searching for, are inside of you.

If you waste the rest of the season complaining about the referees, that is what you will teach your kids. If you "take the high road" and insist that your kids do the best that they can. That's what they will learn.

You have more influence over these children than you realize. (you have little, or no influence over the referees you get)

(I ref little kids. When I see them fall down, they look up at me. I tell them to get up. Sounds rough. But its kind of like life. Actually, they get up and run down the court.) Sure, I blew the call. But, I am also trying to get up off the floor. Next time, I will be better.

When you make your decision to "get up" or "stay on the floor and look for pity", you are not only deciding for yourself, you are deciding for your players. You are helping them to learn that, "in life", they are going to encounter "bad refs" and "stabs in the back". When your players grow up, will they lay on the floor and look for pity? Or will they overcome every obstacle that life throws at them?

Sports are like life. You are helping to form the attitudes that these kids will take with them later in life.

You decide.

But, let me tell you. You will feel so proud when you see later that they have succeeded. And you will know it is because of how you coached them this year. (not because you poisioned your kids with hate because of a bad call).




[Edited by Time2Ref on Feb 12th, 2006 at 09:53 PM]

[JCrow]

Some Youth Ref's are terrible. I've considered pullling Teams once or twice. Never did it but it was in my mind for the kids' safety. The primary skill in reffing youth games is to "control" the contact so that "inexperienced" players don't go bananas and start pushing opponents into walls on lay-ups. Stopping a game and warning both squads to knock it off and play basketball is effective.

A Youth Basketball Game shouldn't be a dangerous as a hunting trip with our Vice-President.

[lmeadski]

thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think you feel I was madder about this than I really was. After that game we had two other games without any real incidents. We are a 11 and under team that plays in the 12 and under league. We do that so the girls are forced to elevate their level of play. Having coached for 10+ years, I know basketball is a physical game. And we told the girls the games would be more physical in the upper age level. I just never expected to see a fellow ref allow such aggressive play and then T me up for calling him Stripes (and, as I originally posted, I didn't have much tone in my voice. In fact, my parents thought they had drawn the T from the stands for yelling at the ref after this occurred). As a ref, the girls know how I stand about respecting the referees (post game, after telling the opposing team good job, they are required to go thank the referees). They also know I am their coach and must keep their best interests at heart. Anyway, I was just relaying what happened this past weekend. It is fun to wear both shoes (coach and ref) as it gives me an interesting perspective on what motivates and frustrates both.

[mick]

All this talk about elementary tournaments is getting me all excited about the 3 games I have scheduled for next Saturday morning.

[lmeadski]

I didn't even go into the problems I had with team parents about their kid's playing time!

[mick]

Originally posted by lmeadski
I didn't even go into the problems I had with team parents about their kid's playing time!

Thanks.
I'm partnered with my DII friend.
I'll make sure he's the R.

[bgtg19]

I'm disappointed in you, Imeadski. Re-read Time2Ref for a thoughtful response which pretty well captures my thoughts. The less thoughtful and straight-forward response is:

The play was not as bad/violent as you are describing; recognize your own bias in the matter. You deserved the T.

[TriggerMN]

5 on 4 heading up the court is ALWAYS an advantage. It's simply up to the official to judge if the injured player is injured significantly enough to immediately stop play.

[mick]

Originally posted by bgtg19
I'm disappointed in you, Imeadski. Re-read Time2Ref for a thoughtful response which pretty well captures my thoughts. The less thoughtful and straight-forward response is:

The play was not as bad/violent as you are describing; recognize your own bias in the matter. You deserved the T.

I'm not disappointed at all.
The way I read lmeadski's post was that he was sharng, not whining.
Nuthin' wrong with that.
If you want whining, listen to my coaches next Saturday.
mick