2 questions

[BigJoe]

I think we missed a point on situation #1. The lead official should never have allowed a teammate of the shooter to take this position in the first place. If he did make that mistake, it should be a violation on him. Good preventative officiating should prevent this from ever happening. I hope that the lead official didn't make this call if no one but he or she noticed the violation. If there is to be another free throw he should calmly and quietly see that another defender take the lane space.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
[/B]

Therefore, if the player has the ball and the official judges the contact to not be intentional or flagrant, it is a player-control foul which is a common foul.
If the player does not have the ball, I believe that the rule demands the call be intentional or flagrant as there is no other choice.

[/B][/QUOTE]Nevada,this is your direct quote above.

Your first statement is correct.

Your second statement is wrong. If the official judges the contact by a player without the ball to not be intentional or flagrant(similar to your first sentence),then the official can call a common foul as per R4-19-2.There certainly is a third choice.

You're trying to change the original meaning of your second sentence above to include excess contact.That is not mentioned anywhere in there.The reference that you are trying to use on P69 is labelled "excess swinginging of arms/elbows",and isn't applicable when the contact doesn't fit in that category.How could you assess a common foul in one case when a player who has the ball commits it,and then say a completely similar act can't be called a common foul if a player without the ball commits it? Riddle me that one,Batman!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BigJoe
I think we missed a point on situation #1. The lead official should never have allowed a teammate of the shooter to take this position in the first place. If he did make that mistake, it should be a violation on him. Good preventative officiating should prevent this from ever happening. I hope that the lead official didn't make this call if no one but he or she noticed the violation. If there is to be another free throw he should calmly and quietly see that another defender take the lane space.

I can't agree that you just simply ignore the double violation.That's not preventive officiating.Sure,you should have caught it,You didn't though.However,two wrongs don't make a right,especially when the 2nd. "wrong" is the only officially recognized "wrong" by rule.What are you going to say to the B coach if he asks you later why the double violation wasn't called.If they happen to lose by a made FT that you shouldn't have allowed,don't you think that you kinda made yourself into the deciding factor in this game?