Butler-VCU (or VCU-Butler) Conversation

[vbzebra]

charge on both and nothing on rebound foul. Anyone else? Granted, I'm not on the floor for that game, but hey, you asked, and i gave my .01 cents

[CLH]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

charge on both and nothing on rebound foul. Anyone else? Granted, I'm not on the floor for that game, but hey, you asked, and i gave my .01 cents

I concur...

[canuckrefguy]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Block or charge?

The Butler guy was late - not by a lot, but still late. If the VCU player starts his layup before the defender "is there", it's a block.

Two things on that play - (1) excellent lead positioning by Luckie, he's boxing in the play close as opposed to being on the sideline; Driscoll is behind the play, so Luckie has a better look, even though he gives up the call. I'd bet my bottom dollar they've both got the same call, though. (2) - this is what separates the big dogs from those below them - not just the signal and hold, but the 'primary' guy taking it, which was either pregamed or a natural part of their repetroire.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Foul or a player getting out jumped?

Agree with Clark Kellogg - a ticky-tack call.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Marginal/incidental contact or charge?

I thought it was odd that all three guys passed on this. Centre has a PERFECT look. It wasn't a train wreck, but the defender obviously had position and got knocked over.

[Juulie Downs]

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

Agree with Clark Kellogg - a ticky-tack call.

I'm really disappointed with Kellogg this year. I have found him to be pretty good in the past, and not all that bad from a ref's point of view, but this year, he's been a lot less understanding about basic rules and vocabulary. Doggone it.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

charge on both and nothing on rebound foul. Anyone else? Granted, I'm not on the floor for that game, but hey, you asked, and i gave my .01 cents

I agree on all three counts.

Originally Posted by Judtech

Kudos to the LEAD for following the "Double whistle not double preliminary" rule!!
Here is my question, and Im drawing a blank. IMO it looked like the VCU player started into his 'shooting/lay up' motion prior to making contact with the Butler player. However, when contact was made IMO again the Butler player was 'there'.
So my question is: Does the shooting motion supercede LGP or vice versa? I'm sure it is an easy answer but like I said, drawing a blank

It is not the beginning of the shooting motion or the try which matters. It is the point at which the offensive player becomes airborne, and airborne is defined as BOTH feet having left the playing surface.
Until that time the defender may obtain any spot on the court and draw a charge, with the exception of directly under the basket at the NCAA level.

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

The Butler guy was late - not by a lot, but still late. If the VCU player starts his layup before the defender "is there", it's a block.

I have to disagree with your understanding of the college rule. As I just wrote above, the start of the layup has nothing to do with it. I suggest that you take a few moments and dig into the NCAA rulesbook, and then see if your position changes. Of course, what you have written is the way that the NBA does it. I have no idea how FIBA handles these situations.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Here's the play that zeedonk is referring to:

Block or charge?

Player control. My belief is that the C's call was 100% wrong.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Foul or a player getting out jumped?

No foul here. The call took away a great rebounding effort.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Marginal/incidental contact or charge?

I've got a foul against the ball carrier.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Here's the play that zeedonk is referring to:

YouTube - Fast Break Block/Charge Play VCU vs. Butler

Block or charge?

Gathering for or starting the shooting motion does not "supersede" the defender's LGP, meaning the defender still has opportunity to beat the offensive player to the spot.

If that play is a block it would be b/c contact was with the defender's right knee which appears to be outside his natural stance, not because he wasn't there first or didn't have LGP.