Thoughts on Technical Foul

[APG]

While I agree with your sentiment tref, I believe you've taken this comment and gone DEFCON 1 with it.

[tref]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

While I agree with your sentiment tref, I believe you've taken this comment and gone DEFCON 1 with it.

Perhaps, I've just seen too many of his kind lately & its a bit much, after working high level playoff games then hopping back on the wreck scene.

Coaches that ref too...
Players that ref too...
Mommas that ref too...
Daddys that ref too...
Little cousins whose uncles, yeah, ref too...

My point is, if you do ref too:

1. You are still held to a higher standard while coaching/playing.
2. You're not working THIS game, but there is an extra shirt & whistle in my bag, lets go 3!
3. Treat officials how you would like to be treated when you officiate.

[dsqrddgd909]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If a coach, while on offense, alerts me to an injured opponent (whether known or unknown by the officials), my interpretation immediately becomes that they are giving up their offensive drive and I can't see not killing the play immediately.

No, I would not call a team timeout in the situation as you described. I would go with an official's timeout.

Note that an official doesn't have to "tell the perpetrator" about a foul call. Any voicing of a foul is done in a general sense to anyone that is interested. The only official direct conversation is directed to the scorekeeper. However, any dead ball T I call will likely have a whistle from me with a clear voice reporting the foul. IOW, the coach will surely know that he was T'd up.

I would not T a coach up for saying that something is "really bad officiating". Now, if he was a case of ABS, I most definitely would consider it.

ABS? What is that?

[APG]

Oh I definitely agree, but I feel there's a huge difference between the statement in the OP, and say the actions of the forum poster (Judtech?) earlier who lambasted the officials and acted like the out of control coaches we talk about here. That's all I was really saying.

[APG]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

ABS? What is that?

Accumulation of B***S***.

[Big2Cat]

A few things. I never pulled any type of "I am an official, too" on the guy. I also know it isn't my assignment. Also, I didn't show the official up. I told him face to face, in a close conversation where the only person that might have heard was the scorer that his decision was bad officiating. He didn't respond and I went to my huddle.

I then found out he gave me a T from my girls who were watching from the bench.

I don't show up officials. Once I got the T, I sat on the bench and didn't say a word. Although I didn't agree with his T, I respected his right to give me one and didn't argue a thing.

I think this whole "being in the fraternity" means we are perfect people and can't ever make mistakes ourselves. Plus, some of you also assumed it was a young guy. This was an older guy who does our games. In 15 years of coaching and 22 years of officiating, that is only the second T I have ever received, so please Nevada, don't make it seem like I am some Master Official trying to berate and intimidate other officials, or that I am disrespecting the fraternity. It isn't the case at all.

Had I yelled there was a player down, it would not have had the immediate effect of stopping play that yelling timeout would have. The officials had no clue and did I mention the girl was not moving?

I appreciate the feedback. I also told my girls I could have handled it better and my desire is to never, ever get a technical foul. Like I said, I didn't agree with it, but I got one. And I never, ever like to set that example for my girls.

Anyhow, bottom line is I think most of you agree it should have been an official's timeout and the T was in the 50/50 area.

Thanks, and sorry that I am not a perfect human being.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

ABS? What is that?

Accumulation of Bull $%^*

A comment that by itself you would probably ignore but when they start accumulating and multiplying like rabbits it is enough to peg your T-meter.

[dsqrddgd909]

Thanks Welpe and APG. Adding that to my officiation lexicon.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by tref

Although when I whack one of you "I ref too coaches" the entire gym will know it, this obviously inexperienced official did not have to "tell"

Yup, Defcon 1 for sure. You are assuming I was ranting and raving and screaming. Wrong. I simply told him in a normal conversation it was bad officiating. I like how I am held to a higher standard of other coaches because I officiate. Why? Because I know the rules? Or because I know how hard the job is? As many other officials in here will tell you, please show me that in the rulebook.

I hold officials to a high standard because that is what the job requires. When officials tell me it isn't a backcourt violation because both feet and the ball didn't go into the backcourt, it gets frustrating and I do explain after the game they have the rule backwards.

Anyhow, instead of just answering the question in general:

1) would you charge the timeout
2) would that be a T

you and Nevada instead decide to make character judgments about me and come up with some "fraternity" stuff. Just like what, police should look the other way when another police officer commits an illegal act? Give me a break.

The best part, tref, is that you will then BECOME the show. You will make sure the entire gym knows it! Gosh, I would love to come watch some of your games. I bet you think people come to watch you.

Newsflash.

They don't.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Big2Cat

Yup, Defcon 1 for sure. You are assuming I was ranting and raving and screaming. Wrong. I simply told him in a normal conversation it was bad officiating. I like how I am held to a higher standard of other coaches because I officiate.

Sorry coach, but this is news to you? Of course you are.

[Big2Cat]

I truly posted to:

1) Find out if my feelings were correct that most would not charge a timeout to a coach in that situation

2) Was a T warranted

Most of you would make it an official's timeout for 1. Cool.

In 2, I also added that I was winning and had plenty of timeouts left. I was willing to point out my argument was unwarranted and it was an imperfect moment on my part. So the T certainly could have been warranted and I'm cool with this. The reality is I got a T and I understand why. He might have been right to give it to me--it's his decision and I respect that. I just didn't agree with it.

Thanks for the feedback. Being the coach at times gives me insight to both sides and I asked the question for feedback--not to take sides and certainly not to come under attack. It is all to become a better official and coach on my part.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sorry coach, but this is news to you? Of course you are.

Show me the rule.

[Big2Cat]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sorry coach, but this is news to you? Of course you are.

So, what you are basically saying is that you will give another coach more leeway and hit me harder because I also officiate.

Therefore, you have no decided to give the other coach and advantage and already taken away your role as impartial official who is there to keep things fair.

Well done. And if you never know I also officiate, now what?

[Adam]

1. Does this official know you ref? If so, I would be a little more quick with the T. Your comment was out of line, regardless, however, and you should have known you were risking a T when you said it. Whether he "told" you isn't really relevant. He's not required to. He told the table. Would you prefer he made a show out of it, like you're accusing tref of wanting to do?

2. Was the girl in danger? Did you bring an EMT onto the court? If not, a few extra seconds isn't going to make things worse. Get his attention, point to the player. Unless she's unconscious or bleeding profusely, I don't get the "urgency" here.

I'll reanswer. No, I wouldn't have charged the TO. Frankly, I would have come up to you and quietly asked, while the injured player was being attended to, if you really wanted the TO.

Yes, I would have given you a T. The only thing I would have done differently is blown my whistle when giving it.

[tref]

I respect that, coach! My apologies!

Just curious, with the game situation (time & score) being what it was, why say anything at all?

Also, if you dont think it looks bad for a coach (while he's upset) to have a quick face to face with an official, then walk away, thats on you.

And, "bad officiating" is a commentators term. Nobody "in the game" talks like that.