Tennessee fires Bruce Pearl

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm not sure I follow you - how does not liking a scumbag who directly affected the program for several years afterward "have no relevence"?

Did he really affect the program that seriously? What Pearl happens in programs all over the country all the time, we just do not hear about the details to know. Heck the SEC has this happen almost every time a school gets on probation. Not sure why it has that much relevance when Illini is not a much better place to attend. Lou Henson could not recruit the state very well, that is the reason Illini has not been a great program. I think the "Pearl incident" was one thing in a long list of events that have hurt the program.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

This one I don't understand as well. Not your comment, but the feeling that Self was some sort of "traitor". Not all IL fans actually hold that opinion, btw. He had ties to KS, and for him it was move up, along with being closer geographically to his family, I believe. Also, he didn't exactly go pursuing the job; the only reason it was open was because Matt Dougherty was fired at North Carolina, which opened up the job for Roy Williams to leave KS. I personally met him once when his son played Little League on a different team from my son - he was engaging and seemed like a class individual. He didn't do anything that I'm aware to screw the program or the school, other than leave for what he considered a better job. In the meantime, there might be some fans who thought they had found a long-term, top-level coach, and he didn't stay as intended.

Of course not all fans feel that way, just stating that anytime these issues come up there is a very vocal contingency that is holding on to these things that have very little to do with the health or success of the program. I think Self brought the Illini program into a better light and gets more attention based on what he did when he was there. I do feel that when Collins was not hired by Illini when Henson left, the CPS schools did kind of "boycott" the school or tried to send their kids elsewhere, but that was more about Illini and their insecurity of the issue than what Pearl did or did not do while at Iowa.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did he really affect the program that seriously? What Pearl happens in programs all over the country all the time, we just do not hear about the details to know. Heck the SEC has this happen almost every time a school gets on probation. Not sure why it has that much relevance when Illini is not a much better place to attend. Lou Henson could not recruit the state very well, that is the reason Illini has not been a great program. I think the "Pearl incident" was one thing in a long list of events that have hurt the program.




Of course not all fans feel that way, just stating that anytime these issues come up there is a very vocal contingency that is holding on to these things that have very little to do with the health or success of the program. I think Self brought the Illini program into a better light and gets more attention based on what he did when he was there. I do feel that when Collins was not hired by Illini when Henson left, the CPS schools did kind of "boycott" the school or tried to send their kids elsewhere, but that was more about Illini and their insecurity of the issue than what Pearl did or did not do while at Iowa.

Peace

Maybe. But Pearl is the one that initiated the investigation that caused the probation, the suspension of Collins and some of the rest of the staff, and all the associated problems, without any apparent concrete basis. So he gets to be the scapegoat.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Maybe. But Pearl is the one that initiated the investigation that caused the probation, the suspension of Collins and some of the rest of the staff, and all the associated problems, without any apparent concrete basis. So he gets to be the scapegoat.

That is really my point. Does it matter that Pearl's actions started the investigation, but he did not alone penalize the program. Blame the NCAA for their woes, not an opposing coach that is basically going for the same players.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is really my point. Does it matter that Pearl's actions started the investigation, but he did not alone penalize the program. Blame the NCAA for their woes, not an opposing coach that is basically going for the same players.

Peace

Trust me, there's plenty of feelings about the NCAA and the process. But again, I point out the method that Pearl used - taping a phone converstaion without the other person's knowledge, then using an apparently doctored version of it to start problems for a rival school. At best, it's borderline illegal.

As to his claims that he was simply trying "right the wrongs" of a rival school, and he is simply a "whistle-blower", maybe he doesn't lie about things like that. Oh, wait...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Trust me, there's plenty of feelings about the NCAA and the process. But again, I point out the method that Pearl used - taping a phone converstaion without the other person's knowledge, then using an apparently doctored version of it to start problems for a rival school. At best, it's borderline illegal.

As to his claims that he was simply trying "right the wrongs" of a rival school, and he is simply a "whistle-blower", maybe he doesn't lie about things like that. Oh, wait...

OK, but if you are clean then you do not have to worry about it. This was not a court of law; this was something that lead to an investigation with the NCAA. Sorry, but I am not seeing what the outrage is if they did not get caught. If anyone you need to be mad at it is not Pearl, but the NCAA.

As you know I am a big Michigan fan and I do not get upset at anyone for what happened with the Fab 5. And it appears that what Michigan and even Webber was accused of was not as cut and dry as many wanted to make it. That feeling of anger or disappointment is more about the NCAA, not people who blew the whistle on the activities, which happened to be the Federal Government that was investigating a guy and where he got his money and who he gave it to.

The actions of the University and their coaches got them in trouble, not some guy that taped a conversation in another program. I guess it just makes "ya'll" feel better by ragging on Pearl and trying to make some connection with this current situation. And when Pearl lands on his feet elsewhere and with probably a better job, then what are the Illini faithful going to say then?

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

As you know I am a big Michigan fan and I do not get upset at anyone for what happened with the Fab 5. And it appears that what Michigan and even Webber was accused of was not as cut and dry as many wanted to make it.

It wasn't cut and dried? Do you know something we don't know? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Webber get fined through the legal system for those loans, also get suspended by the NBA for them, get his 1993 All-American honors removed and ordered not to associate with the Michigan program until 2013? Not to mention having Michigan's records removed completely from the 1992 & 93 Final Fours?

None of that happened?

Note I didn't even mention recent Michigan football.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It wasn't cut and dried? Do you know something we don't know? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Webber get fined through the legal system for those loans, also get suspended by the NBA for them, get his 1993 All-American honors removed and ordered not to associate with the Michigan program until 2013? Not to mention having Michigan's records removed completely from the 1992 & 93 Final Fours?

None of that happened?

You obviously do not understand the point I was making. If you watched the ESPN Documentary that premiered over a week ago about the "Fab 5" you would have seen that the participants and even those that covered the team and the program are not totally convinced that Weber took money while at school. And according to Jalen Rose, who lived in the same community of Weber and Martin said that much of the accusations directed toward Martin were not associated with the Michigan program. Rose made it clear that Martin did things for kids throughout the community and not just players that went to a particular school or even were college players. And reporter Mitch Album (sp?) that was close to the situation claimed that if Webber was getting money while at Michigan, he sure was hiding it very well with the car he drove and the clothes he had on his back or the place he lived. So the issues do not seem cut and dry to those that witnessed the events. Album's assertion is that Weber left school after his sophomore year because he was not getting and benefit to what he and his teammates were bringing to the school and Nike specifically.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Note I didn't even mention recent Michigan football.

And this means what? You can mention it all you like and the reason that coach is now gone. I doubt seriously that anyone in 5 years will be complaining about what happen as the reason the program is up or down. What happened with Pearl was over 20 years ago. If Rich Rod lost another job I can tell you I would be surprised that anyone at Michigan would care or hope that it happens. Illini fans are not only mad that the program is where it is today, but they claim to still be mad that a certain coach never got the job as if the investigation is the only reason that coach ended up at UIC. I am not assuming this, I have asked many for what they think and it seems to come back to what happen a long time ago when this coach is brought up. It does not have to be all that feel this way, but the ones that believe this are very vocal.

Peace