Tennessee fires Bruce Pearl

[Adam]

So, what were the actual violations that set your program back so far? Regardless of the reason the investigation started, it seems y'all were caught with something.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what were the actual violations that set your program back so far? Regardless of the reason the investigation started, it seems y'all were caught with something.

This is exactly my point. They were not clean and what Pearl might have reported was not the worst thing or unusual in any way from a competing program. Recruiting is sleazy in major college basketball, this was just something that got out and Coach Pearl was directly involved. But if you talk to many Illini fans, they just will not let it go. They have relished in this situation with Pearl as if the situation is directly involved with the Illini situation.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is exactly my point. They were not clean and what Pearl might have reported was not the worst thing or unusual in any way from a competing program. Recruiting is sleazy in major college basketball, this was just something that got out and Coach Pearl was directly involved.

Exactly. This is the reason there's so much animosity about Pearl and the situation - it happens everywhere, but only penalized here. (True, "only" is not correct, but it certainly felt that way at that time.) Sleaze started the process, and apparently none of that sleaze was penalized. If IL did something wrong, they deserved to be penalized just like everyone else. Not different from everyone else.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But if you talk to many Illini fans, they just will not let it go. They have relished in this situation with Pearl as if the situation is directly involved with the Illini situation.

I don't think it's an issue of feeling it directly involes Illinois, but rather a feeling that perhaps a little bit of karma has finally come back to run over the person that started the process.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Exactly. This is the reason there's so much animosity about Pearl and the situation - it happens everywhere, but only penalized here. (True, "only" is not correct, but it certainly felt that way at that time.) Sleaze started the process, and apparently none of that sleaze was penalized. If IL did something wrong, they deserved to be penalized just like everyone else. Not different from everyone else.

Looking at this from a neutral standpoint because I don't care about Pearl or his history or the Illini, look at what you said.

To me it sounds like you are saying, yes everybody is doing it and that's not why we're mad, we're mad because we got caught and it's Pearl's fault.

So Illini fans are blaming him for something that would never had happened if they hadn't cheated in the first place? Sounds like passing the buck rather than owning up to it.

Just my $.02 and I'm putting on my fire proof suit as we speak...

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Looking at this from a neutral standpoint because I don't care about Pearl or his history or the Illini, look at what you said.

To me it sounds like you are saying, yes everybody is doing it and that's not why we're mad, we're mad because we got caught and it's Pearl's fault.

So Illini fans are blaming him for something that would never had happened if they hadn't cheated in the first place? Sounds like passing the buck rather than owning up to it.

Just my $.02 and I'm putting on my fire proof suit as we speak...

I don't think that's the feeling in general. (At least not in my case.) If IL did something wrong, they should be penalized. But everyone should be penalized. I'm not talking about other schools and minor infractions - that's like complaining to the officer who pulls you over for speeding that everyone else is doing it too. I'm talking about the informant that uses an illegal wiretap to call the police about an on-going major crime, then the police break in without a warrant and find the crime isn't happening, but while they're there, they find some marijuana cigarettes in the ashtray. How far would that case get in the court system? Cool, possession is wrong and should be punished. But so should the informant that used the illegal wiretap, and so should the cops who busted in without probable cause. That's the difference in the feeling around here.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I don't think that's the feeling in general. (At least not in my case.) If IL did something wrong, they should be penalized. But everyone should be penalized. I'm not talking about other schools and minor infractions - that's like complaining to the officer who pulls you over for speeding that everyone else is doing it too. I'm talking about the informant that uses an illegal wiretap to call the police about an on-going major crime, then the police break in without a warrant and find the crime isn't happening, but while they're there, they find some marijuana cigarettes in the ashtray. How far would that case get in the court system? Cool, possession is wrong and should be punished. But so should the informant that used the illegal wiretap, and so should the cops who busted in without probable cause. That's the difference in the feeling around here.

If Pearl's tape was illegal, isn't it up to UI to press for charges? IIRC, he wasn't even so much as reprimanded from that angle.

I've got no love for Pearl, although there was a time I would have been happy to see him coaching at Iowa. His behavior towards the high school officials in TN turned me off of him in a hurry.

As for your question:
1st, wouldn't happen. If it did, the evidence would have been thrown out.

The difference, of course, is that the NCAA doesn't operate under the same rules of evidence and presumption of innocence as the US Justice System. More like Haazard County, IMO.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If Pearl's tape was illegal, isn't it up to UI to press for charges? IIRC, he wasn't even so much as reprimanded from that angle.

From what I remember, the laws in IA were/are different than IL about wiretapping, and thus it would've been a difficult prosecution based on jurisdictions, available evidence, etc.

The whole process was started as a result of Pearl having a tape of a recruit admitting that IL offered him a specific amount of cash, and a car. How much more of a major violation can there be? This isn't accidentally speaking to a recruit on the wrong day of the week. Play the tape in a news conference and IL will be knocked back down to Division 3 status. But yet, none of that was part of the final findings. Not a single mention. Even with the NCAA's version of justice. How come?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The difference, of course, is that the NCAA doesn't operate under the same rules of evidence and presumption of innocence as the US Justice System. More like Haazard County, IMO.

Agreed, hence the same disdain for the NCAA. I believe the NCAA even said outright in their news conference that even though they couldn't prove anything, they still felt IL was guilty. If that isn't Hazzard Co.-like, I don't know what is...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by WreckRef

Looking at this from a neutral standpoint because I don't care about Pearl or his history or the Illini, look at what you said.

To me it sounds like you are saying, yes everybody is doing it and that's not why we're mad, we're mad because we got caught and it's Pearl's fault.

So Illini fans are blaming him for something that would never had happened if they hadn't cheated in the first place? Sounds like passing the buck rather than owning up to it.

Just my $.02 and I'm putting on my fire proof suit as we speak...

+1

But I'm a Hawkeye fan and found the entire scenario amusing.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what were the actual violations that set your program back so far? Regardless of the reason the investigation started, it seems y'all were caught with something.

The actual violation was "lack of institutional control". Iow, they did not find any specific major violations, such as the ones originally implied on the recruitments of Thomas and Ellis. The article mentioned above, while perhaps written a little over-the-top, was accurate from the other reporting I'd seen at the time. The tapes of phone conversations that Pearl provided had problems, from both a technical and a legal standpoint. The principal person involved with the Ellis recruitment admitted he lied. After many weeks and months involved in the NCAA investigation, you will not find any mention in the final report of the events that started it. The feeling was they found some minor infractions that could be found almost anywhere and not penalized, but since they spent all this time on it, they had to come up with "something". There's also the feeling that since IL didn't automatically go along with the NCAA attorney (Mike Slive) and actually fought the initial charges, that the purposely-vague charge was retribution of sorts for going against the NCAA.