Tennessee fires Bruce Pearl

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Before he became the coach at UW-Mil., Bruce Pearl was an asst. coach at Iowa under Dr. Tom Davis. Back in the day, both IA and IL were recruiting Deon Thomas. Supposedly he had a taped conversation of a phone call w/Deon where Deon supposedly admitted that IL had offered him cash and a Chevy Blazer to attend IL. Pearl and IA then turned in the info to the NCAA; they investigated, found no direct proof of any wrongdoing, but sanctioned IL anyway due to "lack of institutional control". Digger Phelps and ND were involved in the investigation somehow because ND and IL were also involved in the recruitment of Ellis at that time.

The main reason Pearl is hated around here is because the whole investigation was started under shady circumstances - it was a supposedly illegal wiretapped phone conversation, initiated by Pearl, that started the investigation, but that particular item was never publically addressed. Add to it the NCAA never found any direct wrongdoing, but the lead investigator at the time, and the NCAA, decided to punish IL for general violations after a year or two. Btw, the lead investigator was Mike Slive, who is now the commisioner of the ...wait for it... SEC.

Fixed THAT part for ya. No charge.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Do I think that Pearl made a humongous mistake? Yes. Should they have fired him? Well, I think the answer is no. Others clearly think differently. We'll see where the program heads now.

Fwiw John Calipari was appalled that that Pearl would do something underhanded like that. He said that it taints the accomplishments of the rest of the SEC coaches who would never dream of acting like that and that he deserved to be fired.

Or maybe not......



What's the difference between Pearl and every other coach in the SEC? He got caught.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Fixed THAT part for ya. No charge.

You know, I actually thought about going back and changing it myself after I posted it. Thanks!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

Why is there no comment of LaPhonso Ellis or U of I fans in Champaign?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I believe the Illini faced some sanctions, but it's been 20 years (talk about holding on to your grudges), so the memories from my teenage years are fading.

I am on a site of HS and Illini fans and they never seem to let it go. But then again that is what Illini fans do, worry about things that have no relevance to them. They are still holding onto why Self left their program 8 years ago.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am on a site of HS and Illini fans and they never seem to let it go. But then again that is what Illini fans do, worry about things that have no relevance to them. They are still holding onto why Self left their program 8 years ago.

Peace

Maybe they can blame Pearl for that, too?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Maybe they can blame Pearl for that, too?

They damn near blame him for that. Because when Jimmy Collins was not hired or his reputation was sullied, then they believe it set the program back years and the Chicago Public Schools would not send players to that program. So they do not come out and make that direct connection most of the time, but there are people that believe they are connected and one of the reasons Self did not want to stay.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But then again that is what Illini fans do, worry about things that have no relevance to them.

I'm not sure I follow you - how does not liking a scumbag who directly affected the program for several years afterward "have no relevence"?

Originally Posted by JRutledge

They are still holding onto why Self left their program 8 years ago.

This one I don't understand as well. Not your comment, but the feeling that Self was some sort of "traitor". Not all IL fans actually hold that opinion, btw. He had ties to KS, and for him it was move up, along with being closer geographically to his family, I believe. Also, he didn't exactly go pursuing the job; the only reason it was open was because Matt Dougherty was fired at North Carolina, which opened up the job for Roy Williams to leave KS. I personally met him once when his son played Little League on a different team from my son - he was engaging and seemed like a class individual. He didn't do anything that I'm aware to screw the program or the school, other than leave for what he considered a better job. In the meantime, there might be some fans who thought they had found a long-term, top-level coach, and he didn't stay as intended.

[Adam]

So, what were the actual violations that set your program back so far? Regardless of the reason the investigation started, it seems y'all were caught with something.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

I'm not sure I follow you - how does not liking a scumbag who directly affected the program for several years afterward "have no relevence"?

Did he really affect the program that seriously? What Pearl happens in programs all over the country all the time, we just do not hear about the details to know. Heck the SEC has this happen almost every time a school gets on probation. Not sure why it has that much relevance when Illini is not a much better place to attend. Lou Henson could not recruit the state very well, that is the reason Illini has not been a great program. I think the "Pearl incident" was one thing in a long list of events that have hurt the program.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

This one I don't understand as well. Not your comment, but the feeling that Self was some sort of "traitor". Not all IL fans actually hold that opinion, btw. He had ties to KS, and for him it was move up, along with being closer geographically to his family, I believe. Also, he didn't exactly go pursuing the job; the only reason it was open was because Matt Dougherty was fired at North Carolina, which opened up the job for Roy Williams to leave KS. I personally met him once when his son played Little League on a different team from my son - he was engaging and seemed like a class individual. He didn't do anything that I'm aware to screw the program or the school, other than leave for what he considered a better job. In the meantime, there might be some fans who thought they had found a long-term, top-level coach, and he didn't stay as intended.

Of course not all fans feel that way, just stating that anytime these issues come up there is a very vocal contingency that is holding on to these things that have very little to do with the health or success of the program. I think Self brought the Illini program into a better light and gets more attention based on what he did when he was there. I do feel that when Collins was not hired by Illini when Henson left, the CPS schools did kind of "boycott" the school or tried to send their kids elsewhere, but that was more about Illini and their insecurity of the issue than what Pearl did or did not do while at Iowa.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what were the actual violations that set your program back so far? Regardless of the reason the investigation started, it seems y'all were caught with something.

This is exactly my point. They were not clean and what Pearl might have reported was not the worst thing or unusual in any way from a competing program. Recruiting is sleazy in major college basketball, this was just something that got out and Coach Pearl was directly involved. But if you talk to many Illini fans, they just will not let it go. They have relished in this situation with Pearl as if the situation is directly involved with the Illini situation.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

So, what were the actual violations that set your program back so far? Regardless of the reason the investigation started, it seems y'all were caught with something.

The actual violation was "lack of institutional control". Iow, they did not find any specific major violations, such as the ones originally implied on the recruitments of Thomas and Ellis. The article mentioned above, while perhaps written a little over-the-top, was accurate from the other reporting I'd seen at the time. The tapes of phone conversations that Pearl provided had problems, from both a technical and a legal standpoint. The principal person involved with the Ellis recruitment admitted he lied. After many weeks and months involved in the NCAA investigation, you will not find any mention in the final report of the events that started it. The feeling was they found some minor infractions that could be found almost anywhere and not penalized, but since they spent all this time on it, they had to come up with "something". There's also the feeling that since IL didn't automatically go along with the NCAA attorney (Mike Slive) and actually fought the initial charges, that the purposely-vague charge was retribution of sorts for going against the NCAA.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Did he really affect the program that seriously? What Pearl happens in programs all over the country all the time, we just do not hear about the details to know. Heck the SEC has this happen almost every time a school gets on probation. Not sure why it has that much relevance when Illini is not a much better place to attend. Lou Henson could not recruit the state very well, that is the reason Illini has not been a great program. I think the "Pearl incident" was one thing in a long list of events that have hurt the program.




Of course not all fans feel that way, just stating that anytime these issues come up there is a very vocal contingency that is holding on to these things that have very little to do with the health or success of the program. I think Self brought the Illini program into a better light and gets more attention based on what he did when he was there. I do feel that when Collins was not hired by Illini when Henson left, the CPS schools did kind of "boycott" the school or tried to send their kids elsewhere, but that was more about Illini and their insecurity of the issue than what Pearl did or did not do while at Iowa.

Peace

Maybe. But Pearl is the one that initiated the investigation that caused the probation, the suspension of Collins and some of the rest of the staff, and all the associated problems, without any apparent concrete basis. So he gets to be the scapegoat.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Maybe. But Pearl is the one that initiated the investigation that caused the probation, the suspension of Collins and some of the rest of the staff, and all the associated problems, without any apparent concrete basis. So he gets to be the scapegoat.

That is really my point. Does it matter that Pearl's actions started the investigation, but he did not alone penalize the program. Blame the NCAA for their woes, not an opposing coach that is basically going for the same players.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This is exactly my point. They were not clean and what Pearl might have reported was not the worst thing or unusual in any way from a competing program. Recruiting is sleazy in major college basketball, this was just something that got out and Coach Pearl was directly involved.

Exactly. This is the reason there's so much animosity about Pearl and the situation - it happens everywhere, but only penalized here. (True, "only" is not correct, but it certainly felt that way at that time.) Sleaze started the process, and apparently none of that sleaze was penalized. If IL did something wrong, they deserved to be penalized just like everyone else. Not different from everyone else.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But if you talk to many Illini fans, they just will not let it go. They have relished in this situation with Pearl as if the situation is directly involved with the Illini situation.

I don't think it's an issue of feeling it directly involes Illinois, but rather a feeling that perhaps a little bit of karma has finally come back to run over the person that started the process.

[WreckRef]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Exactly. This is the reason there's so much animosity about Pearl and the situation - it happens everywhere, but only penalized here. (True, "only" is not correct, but it certainly felt that way at that time.) Sleaze started the process, and apparently none of that sleaze was penalized. If IL did something wrong, they deserved to be penalized just like everyone else. Not different from everyone else.

Looking at this from a neutral standpoint because I don't care about Pearl or his history or the Illini, look at what you said.

To me it sounds like you are saying, yes everybody is doing it and that's not why we're mad, we're mad because we got caught and it's Pearl's fault.

So Illini fans are blaming him for something that would never had happened if they hadn't cheated in the first place? Sounds like passing the buck rather than owning up to it.

Just my $.02 and I'm putting on my fire proof suit as we speak...