Shot goes in, then push foul. How often?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Snaq and I were talking about advantage/disadvantage as a means of judging whether live-ball contact that otherwise meets the threashold of foul should be ignored as incidental. My point was that they could insert its application into the actual rules at any time, but continually choose not to. Its use in the "Intent and Purpose" is quite different.

First, that wasn't the context. The context of that particular phrase was WRT the POI rule. The purpose and intent of all the rules is to prevent unfair advantage; and holding the arrow or removing the ability to run the endline constitute an advantage for one team when none is intended.

Second, the rules for contact are clear. I'm not placing more emphasis on 4-27-3 than the rule makers intended. The problem is, by its very nature, it's subjective and there's no way to avoid it. What I see as an advantage (or "hinderance") is viewed as others as incidental; and the opposite is true sometimes as well. There's a string in the NCAA thread, with a video, where I see incidental contact on play some would (and in fact the NCAA official on the ball did) rule a foul.

That's what I meant when I said the phrase "a foul is a foul" is meaningless.

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Personally, I think the books are self-sufficient.

Good luck in your career, because you obviously don't feel you need instruction from officials in your area working games to which you strive.

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

The Federation argues that players would soon adjust to whatever we call. I agree, do you? As I have mentioned elsewhere, the volume of contact you speak of was not present in the game thirty and forty years ago, because officials did not tolerate it.

This is the very play we've talked about. Rule 4-27-3 is clear, it's not a foul if the offense isn't hindered. Yeah, they'll adjust, but you'll be calling the game at the junior high level for your entire career if you don't adjust and start implementing 4-27-3.

Let me ask you again, exactly how do you differentiate between a slap that is incidental or a slap that isn't? Do you use 10-6-2 to call a foul every time someone touches an opponent with his hand? What about 10-6-6? Do you call a foul everytime a defender "contacts" his opponent from behind?

10-6-7: Are you going to call the dribbler for a foul when he tries to go between defenders and one of them gets a steal while neither was displaced?

10-6-9: Dribbler is approaching his defender and stops, making very slight contact with the defender's chest. You calling a foul?