Question - One handed push in back WHILE Jump ball with other during shot

[bradfordwilkins]

HS Rules

See this quite a lot in one form or another. B1 comes up behind A1 for a block on a layup or short-range jumper. With B1's right hand, they get all ball. At the same instant, with B1's left hand, they are pushing the defender in the back or hip.

As you know this foul call almost always gets the other B players angry cause they saw that B1 got all ball. Once I report the foul as a push, B1 normally shuts up and realizes they were caught.

The question comes when the two acts are simulataneous and the block holds for a jump ball. Since I guess the foul occurs before the time of the jump ball/block, I almost always go with the foul. Should I be going to jump ball first? What's the ruling?

Thanks

[JRutledge]

Unless the contact affected the ability to block the shot, I have nothing. The contact better be more severe than slight contact. In other words the player in my judgment should be knocked down or moved completely out of the way.

Peace

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
HS Rules

See this quite a lot in one form or another. B1 comes up behind A1 for a block on a layup or short-range jumper. With B1's right hand, they get all ball. At the same instant, with B1's left hand, they are pushing the defender in the back or hip.

As you know this foul call almost always gets the other B players angry cause they saw that B1 got all ball. Once I report the foul as a push, B1 normally shuts up and realizes they were caught.

The question comes when the two acts are simulataneous and the block holds for a jump ball. Since I guess the foul occurs before the time of the jump ball/block, I almost always go with the foul. Should I be going to jump ball first? What's the ruling?

Thanks

Call the foul if the contact may have aided the defender's ability to reach the ball.

A slight pull or push can keep A1 from reaching the normal height on their shot, and it can also add height to B1's jump.

Body then ball is a foul, ball then body might not be unless the contact drastically changes A1's landing or knocks them down.

[bradfordwilkins]

Right, Zebra you've articulated what I call on the head. The question arises, when body and ball are the SAME instant, which takes precident?

[canuckrefguy]

Pass on it unless the push in the back causes "obvious" displacement or altering of the shot (which rarely happens, in my experience).

Frustrating, because sometimes it's a safe bet that a foul is occurring, but without some obviously visible, identifiable contact, it's an impossible sell to players and coaches.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
Right, Zebra you've articulated what I call on the head. The question arises, when body and ball are the SAME instant, which takes precident?

4-27-5 may help.

[drothamel]

I would say that it is impossible for these two events to occur simultaneously. You need to judge which one occurs first, if it is the block, then pass. If it is the contact, and the contact gives B an advantage, then call the foul. Either way, you need to decide which one occurred first. After all, that is why we get paid the big bucks. LOL

[Bart Tyson]

Always assume a good block shot. I want to reward good defense. Make something obvious happen to change your mind.

[ref18]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
Always assume a good block shot. I want to reward good defense. Make something obvious happen to change your mind.

A push from behind is not good defence. I've got the foul every time as it usually happens first, even if it's a split second before the held ball. If I know the held ball happened first, then I'm going with the arrow.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ref18

A push from behind is not good defence. I've got the foul every time as it usually happens first, even if it's a split second before the held ball. If I know the held ball happened first, then I'm going with the arrow.

This one gets my vote.