Passed on Foul, so Passed on the Travel

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Similar situation I had in a recent game...


Backcourt endline spot throwin with the spot on the right of the basket about 1/2 way between the lane and the corner. A2 tries to curl down the opposite side and do a tightrope walk across the endline in an attempt to swing by the thrower for a short pass (handoff). However, B2 is able to cutoff A2's path just as A2 reaches the vicinity of the endline. There is contact. A2 deflects off B2 and B2 is unaffected by the contact. Assume that you judge that either B2 did not commit a foul because B2 had LGP or that there was no additional advantage gained by the contact. A2 steps OOB under the FT lane and, after regaining his balance, immediately returns inbounds. What do you have?

Throw-in violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Backcourt endline spot throwin with the spot on the right of the basket about 1/2 way between the lane and the corner. A2 tries to curl down the opposite side and do a tightrope walk across the endline in an attempt to swing by the thrower for a short pass (handoff). However, B2 is able to cutoff A2's path just as A2 reaches the vicinity of the endline. There is contact. A2 deflects off B2 and B2 is unaffected by the contact. Assume that you judge that either B2 did not commit a foul because B2 had LGP or that there was no additional advantage gained by the contact. A2 steps OOB under the FT lane and, after regaining his balance, immediately returns inbounds. What do you have?

Nothing.

A2 didn't leave the court for an unauthorized reason and also didn't go OOB to parrticipate in the throw-in.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nothing.

A2 didn't leave the court for an unauthorized reason and also didn't go OOB to parrticipate in the throw-in.

That gets my vote.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Throw-in violation.

While, according to the letter of the rules, you'd be correct,

this...

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Nothing.

A2 didn't leave the court for an unauthorized reason and also didn't go OOB to parrticipate in the throw-in.

is what I did and did so knowingly. The intent and purpose of throwin restrictions is what led me to that result.

[constable]

Originally Posted by CDurham

We had a play where a player gets hit and loses his balance. Foul? Well my partner passed on it and the player falls to the floor in control of the ball. Travel? My partner passed on this as well since he did not call the foul which caused the travel.

I have never heard of this philosophy, not saying that is wrong, of passing on 2 things when one caused the other. Does anyone view this situation as my partner did (didnt call the foul so you cannot call the travel). Wouldn't you have to get one or the other. I see it as necessary to call the late foul, but can also see his argument as well, of passing on both if you do not get the culprit which was the foul.

It sounds like the player getting fouled caused him to violate.

You must penalize the foul in this instance. Essentially anytime contact causes a turnover by way of advantage/disadvantage you should have a whistle.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The intent and purpose of throwin restrictions is what led me to that result.

Couldn't the same logic apply to the OP here and justify not calling either the foul or the travel?

[constable]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The best way to handle this is with a late whistle for the foul. Ya, it looks bad, but two missed calls is much much worse. In fact, a late call happens at other times in the game, so they're not entirely a bad thing.

If you're definitely not going to call the foul (which I do not recommend at all), then the only way to acceptably not call the travel is if it is reasonable that the player bobbled the ball before he hit the ground, and therefore only regained player control after he was already on the ground. If it is clear that control was not lost, then you have to call the travel. That's obviously a horrible call, so instead, just live with the late whistle. It's the better call than not calling either or a travel by a factor of 10.

Agreed with the Juggler. Better late than never. You have to have a whistle on the foul. If the coach asks, you might even want to explain that you were gonna let the bump go until the contact resulted in a travel.

[tref]

Originally Posted by constable

If the coach asks, you might even want to explain that you were gonna let the bump go until the contact resulted in a travel.

Dont know if I would word it quite that way... the bump caused the travel, coach.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Couldn't the same logic apply to the OP here and justify not calling either the foul or the travel?

I don't think so.

The difference is that one situation was away from the ball and not really any part of the play that mattered while the other involved the player with the ball. I believe that play away from the ball that doesn't generate some advantage and is not a non-basketball situation need not always be as strictly adjudicated as play at the point of the ball.

The travel rules restricts a player's movement with the ball so they don't get the unfair advantage of running while holding the ball. If you let them travel because they were bumped, how far do you let them go? Unless it was in a crowd where there may have been some doubt when/if there was player control, you have to call one or the other.

The throwin restrictions are in place to force the throwing team to make a throwin that can be fairly defended. I don't see how a player getting bumped OOB away from the ball is any benefit to that player or team unless they get involved in the throwin somehow. Strictly speaking, it would be a throwin violation no matter how close or far away from the throw it was....but when they get there as a result of contact (legal contact), I'm not calling it unless it interferes with the throwin.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Dont know if I would word it quite that way... the bump caused the travel, coach.

I have no problem with constable's words.