Passed on Foul, so Passed on the Travel

[CDurham]

We had a play where a player gets hit and loses his balance. Foul? Well my partner passed on it and the player falls to the floor in control of the ball. Travel? My partner passed on this as well since he did not call the foul which caused the travel.

I have never heard of this philosophy, not saying that is wrong, of passing on 2 things when one caused the other. Does anyone view this situation as my partner did (didnt call the foul so you cannot call the travel). Wouldn't you have to get one or the other. I see it as necessary to call the late foul, but can also see his argument as well, of passing on both if you do not get the culprit which was the foul.

[APG]

I wouldn't follow this philosophy. All your partner did was take a missed call and compound it with another missed call.

[Mark Padgett]

This makes no sense. According to your post, your partner would have called the travel if he had first called the foul. Huh?

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

This makes no sense. According to your post, your partner would have called the travel if he had first called the foul. Huh?

There was contact that caused the player to fall to the court with the ball. But my partner could not call the travel because he did not call the foul which caused the fall to the court.

If there would not have been contact then he would have had a travel. But there was contact that he passed on so he couldnt punish the player for falling to the court as a result of the contact.

[APG]

Why didn't your partner come in with a late call? If by his judgment he deemed the contact not to be a foul, then you have to call the travel. How do you explain to the coach why you didn't call a travel? Your partner's philosophy doesn't make any sense to me. The tape is going to show two no-call incorrects instead of getting the initial call correct or just one missed call.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by CDurham

There was contact that caused the player to fall to the court with the ball. But my partner could not call the travel because he did not call the foul which caused the fall to the court.

If there would not have been contact then he would have had a travel. But there was contact that he passed on so he couldnt punish the player for falling to the court as a result of the contact.

Yes, he could have called a travel so to say otherwise isn't true. However, without seeing the play it sounds like your partner should have called the foul first and the situation wouldn't have happened.

It (or something similar) happened before and it will happen again.

[CDurham]

We all spoke about the play at halftime after he brought it up. And that is when he threw out his philosophy. He's a great official, but this play was a head scratcher for my other partner and I.

[tref]

I wonder if I worked with your partner Saturday!

Im new T on a throw-in after a made basket & all of a sudden a defender is OOB with the thrower. I call a DOG... after the game he says the defender was pushed OOB & I shouldn't have called the DOG

Im thinking to myself, if you called the foul then I wouldnt have had to

But I kept it to myself as thats what you get when they mix up the crews from different areas this time of year...

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

The thrower, his defender & the 2 engaged matchups in front of me. The player that got "pushed" OOB came from the Cs side & was out in lane area facing me. So if there was a push, I wouldn't have seen it.

Maybe it's just me (always likely), but I'd be real hesitant to call the DoG if I didn't see how B1 got OOB; unless he was actually interfering with the throw-in.

Also, it sounds like he was likely pushed while the ball was dead; thus 99% likely there's no foul there.

[Adam]

Have a late whistle on the foul if you truly think it caused the travel.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Have a late whistle on the foul if you truly think it caused the travel.

+1

I called a foul once after the dribbled had taken 4 or 5 steps. The foul caused her to lose her balance, and before she could recover herself and the ball, she stepped on the sideline.

Coach said, "wasn't that too late?" I told her I wanted to see the whole play. I should have asked her whether I should call every bump by her players a foul immediately.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by CDurham

We had a play where a player gets hit and loses his balance. Foul? Well my partner passed on it and the player falls to the floor in control of the ball. Travel? My partner passed on this as well since he did not call the foul which caused the travel.

I have never heard of this philosophy, not saying that is wrong, of passing on 2 things when one caused the other. Does anyone view this situation as my partner did (didnt call the foul so you cannot call the travel). Wouldn't you have to get one or the other. I see it as necessary to call the late foul, but can also see his argument as well, of passing on both if you do not get the culprit which was the foul.

The best way to handle this is with a late whistle for the foul. Ya, it looks bad, but two missed calls is much much worse. In fact, a late call happens at other times in the game, so they're not entirely a bad thing.

If you're definitely not going to call the foul (which I do not recommend at all), then the only way to acceptably not call the travel is if it is reasonable that the player bobbled the ball before he hit the ground, and therefore only regained player control after he was already on the ground. If it is clear that control was not lost, then you have to call the travel. That's obviously a horrible call, so instead, just live with the late whistle. It's the better call than not calling either or a travel by a factor of 10.

[constable]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

The best way to handle this is with a late whistle for the foul. Ya, it looks bad, but two missed calls is much much worse. In fact, a late call happens at other times in the game, so they're not entirely a bad thing.

If you're definitely not going to call the foul (which I do not recommend at all), then the only way to acceptably not call the travel is if it is reasonable that the player bobbled the ball before he hit the ground, and therefore only regained player control after he was already on the ground. If it is clear that control was not lost, then you have to call the travel. That's obviously a horrible call, so instead, just live with the late whistle. It's the better call than not calling either or a travel by a factor of 10.

Agreed with the Juggler. Better late than never. You have to have a whistle on the foul. If the coach asks, you might even want to explain that you were gonna let the bump go until the contact resulted in a travel.

[tref]

Originally Posted by constable

If the coach asks, you might even want to explain that you were gonna let the bump go until the contact resulted in a travel.

Dont know if I would word it quite that way... the bump caused the travel, coach.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by tref

Dont know if I would word it quite that way... the bump caused the travel, coach.

I have no problem with constable's words.