roll over traveling

[Mechanicsman]

Any roll to gain an advantage is a travel. If he is passing and that forces him to his side, I will not call it. If he rolls around looking for a teamate i call it.

[M&M Guy]

We just had this discussion recently:

Roll over = travel

[Nevadaref]

As M&M says we had a big discussion on this point.
I would not characterize what the player did in your situation as "rolling over." One could just as easily call it turning to his side.
I don't penalize for traveling unless the player rotates 180 degrees or more.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I would not characterize what the player did in your situation as "rolling over." One could just as easily call it turning to his side.

That's about as stupid as saying he didn't step with his foot, he just lifted it and put it down somewhere else.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's about as stupid as saying he didn't step with his foot, he just lifted it and put it down somewhere else.

And I think your stance is stupid and that you have NO rules backing to say Nevada was wrong.

Same old, same old. Shrug.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman

Any roll to gain an advantage is a travel. If he is passing and that forces him to his side, I will not call it. If he rolls around looking for a teamate i call it.

I'm confused ... sounds like you're saying that you would have two different rulings for the same play, depending on the circumstances. If that's what you are saying, how can that be? Either it's a violation or it isn't ... my head hurts.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

I'm confused ... sounds like you're saying that you would have two different rulings for the same play, depending on the circumstances. If that's what you are saying, how can that be? Either it's a violation or it isn't ... my head hurts.

Agreed. This play isn't about "intent" or "context" any more than pulling the pivot foot is.

[Mechanicsman]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. This play isn't about "intent" or "context" any more than pulling the pivot foot is.

Well you have to be rolling to gain an advantage.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman

Well you have to be rolling to gain an advantage.

That's just it, you don't. Violations, unlike fouls, are not based on advantage/disadvantage.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Violations, unlike fouls, are not based on advantage/disadvantage.

Three seconds? Ten seconds to shoot a free throw?

"It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule."

Are there some rules that don't involve fouls?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Three seconds? Ten seconds to shoot a free throw?

"It is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule."

Are there some rules that don't involve fouls?

Billy, the traveling rule (and the 3 and 10 second rules you note) do not require advantage; by rule.

3 seconds typically requires either advantage or excess, and the 10 second FT rule typically requires even more excess. Even then, it's not how they were written; it's how they are expected.

Traveling, however, as far as I know, is not now (nor has it been) expected to be called only when an advantage is involved.

[refiator]

Momentum cannot constitute a travel no matter how far a player slides with the ball. IT only becomes a travel when he/she rolls over.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Mechanicsman

Well you have to be rolling to gain an advantage.

What I believe Snaqwells means (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that there's something typically concrete to look for in travelling, i.e., the pick up and replacement of the pivot foot. It's not about an advantange; it's about something defined.

Meanwhile, what exactly defines "rolling over?" Rolling 360 degrees? 180 degrees? I wouldn't say rolling 90 degrees (back to side, side to stomach) is rolling OVER, yet it seems the pluarility here believes thats enough to warrrant a travel.

That's why I started the other thread about this. I was also looking for something defined -- instead of an advantage -- so we're more likely on the same page with this call.

[Mechanicsman]

I agree. Mabey something should be sent to NFHS suggesting more clarity and making it more black and white instead of up to interpretation.

[NoFussRef]

Still laughing about the "Pivot Cheek" comment.