table error makes ref look bad

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by rsl

At GV state tourney game. I am there as a spectator.

A32 commits a front court foul. Coach immediately sends sub to table. L reports foul clearly and correctly. Two man game (yea, don't ask why a state tourney game is two man), so refs rotate and B makes another sub just before the throw-in.

Now twenty seconds later the tables buzzes and asks for clarification on who the foul is on. Ref says A32. Table responds there is no A32 in the game (she was subbed quickly). Ref is now looking around at the floor trying to find the offender, and finally changes the report to A3 because she kinda looks like A32.

The real problem was the sub reporting quickly while the ref was still reporting. The table got distracted and the wrong player got the foul.

Anything the ref could have done? He held the sub while he reported, but the table was still confused.

When reporting the foul, make sure to have eye contact with the scorer & timer, so that both receive the information.

One thing you didn't mention was where was the sub, in front of the scorer kneeling or standing, or was the sub off to the side kneeling or standing? Also was it a one book table or a two book table?

If a two book table have the official scorer confer with the other book about who the foul was on & make sure they are in constant communication throughout the game about who scored & fouled and the running score & foul counts.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

When reporting the foul, make sure to have eye contact with the scorer & timer, so that both receive the information.

Whyinthehell would we care if the timer knows who committed a foul? The only official information on the scoreboard is the time.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whyinthehell would we care if the timer knows who committed a foul? The only official information on the scoreboard is the time.

recording the foul on the scoreboard, for one. even if not official. Also depending on the communication structure of the table, the timer assists the scorer with who scored &/or fouled.

If the only official item on the scoreboard is the time, then why have everything else posted as well? The coaches use both the scoreboard & the scorebook(s) for information pertaining to the score & fouls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

recording the foul on the scoreboard, for one. even if not official. Also depending on the communication structure of the table, the timer assists the scorer with who scored &/or fouled.

If the only official item on the scoreboard is the time, then why have everything else posted as well? The coaches use both the scoreboard & the scorebook(s) for information pertaining to the score & fouls.

JR point is simple; we don't care if the timer knows or not. If he doesn't know but needs to, he can get it from the scorer. My only concern is that the scorer gets it. Anyone beyond that is irrelevant to me.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

If the only official item on the scoreboard is the time, then why have everything else posted as well? The coaches use both the scoreboard & the scorebook(s) for information pertaining to the score & fouls.

The rest of that information on the scoreboard is superfluous. There's a reason why games can be done with a scoreboard that only has the time and the score. Team fouls and player foul counts are just for the fans. I'm not going to ensure the timer is paying attention. If he does, good for him. If he doesn't, not my problem.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The rest of that information on the scoreboard is superfluous. There's a reason why games can be done with a scoreboard that only has the time and the score. Team fouls and player foul counts are just for the fans. I'm not going to ensure the timer is paying attention. If he does, good for him. If he doesn't, not my problem.

Even then, the score isn't official. I could do one without a scoreboard and be perfectly happy. Just give me a clock and an arrow.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Even then, the score isn't official. I could do one without a scoreboard and be perfectly happy. Just give me a clock and an arrow.

Well...I'm not going to go that far.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Even then, the score isn't official. I could do one without a scoreboard and be perfectly happy. Just give me a clock and an arrow.

And no team foul count.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

This is beyond unacceptable for any crew working a state tournament game.Get through the game and report it to the appropriate authority (School AD or tournament assignor).In my games I get the foul recorded while my partners make sure the officials get any subs in.This is because I employ a two part procedure for recording fouls-A.Cross out the personal foul in the players foul count & B.-Record player # committing foul next to the appropriate # team foul.It gives me a second check if a coach wants to question my foul count.
Varsity crews (table and floor) are supposed to be the best of the best (especially at this time of year).At my school we take pride in providing one of the most experienced table crews for our area (2 vice principals who were coaches and myself).I am curious as to the experience level of this crew rsl-were they kids,adults, or a mix?In our state crews (during the playoffs) are supposed to be made up of adults.I worked three road playoff games for my school last week and found only one crew to follow this rule.The other two crews had one adult running the main board and kids doing the book and shot clocks.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

For the JUCO Tournament, it's required by the league.

Also for WIAA, (RockyRoad & the others can verify) for playoff games the scoreboard is used for not just the time, but for the foul counts.

Again, from the officials' perspective, it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by chseagle

Nowhere did I say it was required of the timer to make eye contact with the Reporting Official, I said it was a recommendation that the timer also make eye contact.

No, you said:

Originally Posted by chseagle

When reporting the foul, make sure to have eye contact with the scorer & timer, so that both receive the information.

My point is that if the timer wants/needs the info, it's his responsbility to get it. It's not on the official.

Originally Posted by chseagle

BTW Table crews are not sexist as both men & women work the table.

Good grief. If I was easily offended, I might think you were accusing me of being sexist simply because I failed to make my sentence more difficult to read.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Good grief. If I was easily offended, I might think you were accusing me of being sexist simply because I failed to make my sentence more difficult to read.

If you didn't notice, I did add in her & she in your original quote. Hence why when I say things pertaining to table operations I am mentioning a specific position & not gender, as the table crews can be mixed.

Though in some ways it'd be easier to have an all-male table crew (less raging hormones) LMAO

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Again, from the officials' perspective, it doesn't matter.

Ok when next season comes around, when I'm timer/scoreboard I'll just have the time on the board and nothing else. If I get yelled at for that, I'll tell whoever is yelling at me that I was told it is not required information & that I got that information from you so they'll have to complain to you as well.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Ok when next season comes around, when I'm timer/scoreboard I'll just have the time on the board and nothing else. If I get yelled at for that, I'll tell whoever is yelling at me that I was told it is not required information & that I got that information from you so they'll have to complain to you as well.

Come on CHS!

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Come on CHS!

At least you caught on that I was being sarcastic. (although I didn't put any emotes)

I know that the information on the scoreboard is mainly there for the fans.

Depending on the table crew, however, the timer is the most constant one looking at the reporting official.

Remember awhile back, the topic about table setup, it is for reasons like this that I was asking. The primary constant is that the timer is in the center of the table. The scorer is never always on the same spot every game, even though the timer & scorer are to be seated next to one another.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Ok when next season comes around, when I'm timer/scoreboard I'll just have the time on the board and nothing else. If I get yelled at for that, I'll tell whoever is yelling at me that I was told it is not required information & that I got that information from you so they'll have to complain to you as well.

It's required for you to do your job. It is not a requirement for the officials. That's where your confusion comes in. The only thing we (officials) need on the scoreboard is the time, it's the only OFFICIAL information that is displayed. All other OFFICIAL info is in the book--personal fouls; running score; team fouls; time-outs; team members; players' numbers.