table error makes ref look bad

[rsl]

At GV state tourney game. I am there as a spectator.

A32 commits a front court foul. Coach immediately sends sub to table. L reports foul clearly and correctly. Two man game (yea, don't ask why a state tourney game is two man), so refs rotate and B makes another sub just before the throw-in.

Now twenty seconds later the tables buzzes and asks for clarification on who the foul is on. Ref says A32. Table responds there is no A32 in the game (she was subbed quickly). Ref is now looking around at the floor trying to find the offender, and finally changes the report to A3 because she kinda looks like A32.

The real problem was the sub reporting quickly while the ref was still reporting. The table got distracted and the wrong player got the foul.

Anything the ref could have done? He held the sub while he reported, but the table was still confused.

[Raymond]

20 seconds after the foul I would not have changed it based on that information. I have changed numbers before (did it just the other day) but not so long after the foul with the reasoning being #32 is not in the game. The official(s) should have been aware there were subs brought into the game since the time of the infraction.

[Adam]

Other than remembering that A32 had subbed out immediately after the foul call? Not really.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by rsl

At GV state tourney game. I am there as a spectator.

A32 commits a front court foul. Coach immediately sends sub to table. L reports foul clearly and correctly. Two man game (yea, don't ask why a state tourney game is two man), so refs rotate and B makes another sub just before the throw-in.

Now twenty seconds later the tables buzzes and asks for clarification on who the foul is on. Ref says A32. Table responds there is no A32 in the game (she was subbed quickly). Ref is now looking around at the floor trying to find the offender, and finally changes the report to A3 because she kinda looks like A32.

The real problem was the sub reporting quickly while the ref was still reporting. The table got distracted and the wrong player got the foul.

Anything the ref could have done? He held the sub while he reported, but the table was still confused.

I guess he could have asked who got subbed out. Or if there was an A32 in the book.

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by rsl

At GV state tourney game. I am there as a spectator.

A32 commits a front court foul. Coach immediately sends sub to table. L reports foul clearly and correctly. Two man game (yea, don't ask why a state tourney game is two man), so refs rotate and B makes another sub just before the throw-in.

Now twenty seconds later the tables buzzes and asks for clarification on who the foul is on. Ref says A32. Table responds there is no A32 in the game (she was subbed quickly). Ref is now looking around at the floor trying to find the offender, and finally changes the report to A3 because she kinda looks like A32.

The real problem was the sub reporting quickly while the ref was still reporting. The table got distracted and the wrong player got the foul.

Anything the ref could have done? He held the sub while he reported, but the table was still confused.

Notice that the scorer is or isn't scoring.
Presuming it was noticed that the table was confused, fix the confusion before continuing.

Which leads me to the next question, how many of you notice whether the scorer records what you tell them before continuing with the game?

[APG]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

Notice that the scorer is or isn't scoring.
Presuming it was noticed that the table was confused, fix the confusion before continuing.

Which leads me to the next question, how many of you notice whether the scorer records what you tell them before continuing with the game?

I'm making eye contact with the scorer every time I report something. If I'm constantly having to wait on the scorer because he's not paying attention, then that's an issue that's going to be addressed.

[Adam]

I ensure eye contact; but I don't make sure he writes anything down. I have to have a certain level of trust until I get evidence to the contrary.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by rsl

At GV state tourney game. I am there as a spectator.

A32 commits a front court foul. Coach immediately sends sub to table. L reports foul clearly and correctly. Two man game (yea, don't ask why a state tourney game is two man), so refs rotate and B makes another sub just before the throw-in.

Now twenty seconds later the tables buzzes and asks for clarification on who the foul is on. Ref says A32. Table responds there is no A32 in the game (she was subbed quickly). Ref is now looking around at the floor trying to find the offender, and finally changes the report to A3 because she kinda looks like A32.

The real problem was the sub reporting quickly while the ref was still reporting. The table got distracted and the wrong player got the foul.

Anything the ref could have done? He held the sub while he reported, but the table was still confused.

When reporting the foul, make sure to have eye contact with the scorer & timer, so that both receive the information.

One thing you didn't mention was where was the sub, in front of the scorer kneeling or standing, or was the sub off to the side kneeling or standing? Also was it a one book table or a two book table?

If a two book table have the official scorer confer with the other book about who the foul was on & make sure they are in constant communication throughout the game about who scored & fouled and the running score & foul counts.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

When reporting the foul, make sure to have eye contact with the scorer & timer, so that both receive the information.

Whyinthehell would we care if the timer knows who committed a foul? The only official information on the scoreboard is the time.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whyinthehell would we care if the timer knows who committed a foul? The only official information on the scoreboard is the time.

recording the foul on the scoreboard, for one. even if not official. Also depending on the communication structure of the table, the timer assists the scorer with who scored &/or fouled.

If the only official item on the scoreboard is the time, then why have everything else posted as well? The coaches use both the scoreboard & the scorebook(s) for information pertaining to the score & fouls.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chseagle

recording the foul on the scoreboard, for one. even if not official. Also depending on the communication structure of the table, the timer assists the scorer with who scored &/or fouled.

If the only official item on the scoreboard is the time, then why have everything else posted as well? The coaches use both the scoreboard & the scorebook(s) for information pertaining to the score & fouls.

JR point is simple; we don't care if the timer knows or not. If he doesn't know but needs to, he can get it from the scorer. My only concern is that the scorer gets it. Anyone beyond that is irrelevant to me.

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

If the only official item on the scoreboard is the time, then why have everything else posted as well? The coaches use both the scoreboard & the scorebook(s) for information pertaining to the score & fouls.

The rest of that information on the scoreboard is superfluous. There's a reason why games can be done with a scoreboard that only has the time and the score. Team fouls and player foul counts are just for the fans. I'm not going to ensure the timer is paying attention. If he does, good for him. If he doesn't, not my problem.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

The rest of that information on the scoreboard is superfluous. There's a reason why games can be done with a scoreboard that only has the time and the score. Team fouls and player foul counts are just for the fans. I'm not going to ensure the timer is paying attention. If he does, good for him. If he doesn't, not my problem.

Even then, the score isn't official. I could do one without a scoreboard and be perfectly happy. Just give me a clock and an arrow.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Even then, the score isn't official. I could do one without a scoreboard and be perfectly happy. Just give me a clock and an arrow.

Well...I'm not going to go that far.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Even then, the score isn't official. I could do one without a scoreboard and be perfectly happy. Just give me a clock and an arrow.

And no team foul count.