Unusual Play tonight (shot clock reset when it shouldn't have )

[Jeremy Hohn]

Women's NCAA rules. We have an airball on a shot, that goes off of the defenders hands OOB. My crew and I check and there is 7 on the shot clock. After inbounding and playing for quite a bit, we realize that the shot clock got reset by mistake. One of my co-officials realizes it and pops his whistle. The shot clock now reads 20.

The offensive team's coach states that "I told them to pull it out after seeing a shot clock reset". Now we have both coaches brought together at halfcourt.

What would you do?

I will check back and tell you how we handled it...right or wrong...

[pizanno]

I believe you can only correct the shot-clock error if discovered within that shot-clock window (7 seconds after inbounds).

Not correctable. Sorry coach, we missed it. Play on at POI.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by pizanno

I believe you can only correct the shot-clock error if discovered within that shot-clock window (7 seconds after inbounds).

Not correctable. Sorry coach, we missed it. Play on at POI.

Rules citation please.

[bob jenkins]

Shot clock violation.

(Or, rule "against" the home team -- they provided the operator who made the error)

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Hohn

Women's NCAA rules. We have an airball on a shot, that goes off of the defenders hands OOB. My crew and I check and there is 7 on the shot clock. After inbounding and playing for quite a bit, we realize that the shot clock got reset by mistake. One of my co-officials realizes it and pops his whistle. The shot clock now reads 20.

The offensive team's coach states that "I told them to pull it out after seeing a shot clock reset". Now we have both coaches brought together at halfcourt.

What would you do?

I will check back and tell you how we handled it...right or wrong...

We always need to check the game clock and the shot clock EVERY time we inbounds the ball...this is as much a crew error as a shot clock operator error.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

We always need to check the game clock and the shot clock EVERY time we inbounds the ball...this is as much a crew error as a shot clock operator error.

Huh?

The officials did check the shot clock when they inbounded the ball. And when they checked it, it correctly showed 7 seconds remaining. The shot clock reset after the throw-in. There is nowayinhell you can lay that one on the officials.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

We always need to check the game clock and the shot clock EVERY time we inbounds the ball...this is as much a crew error as a shot clock operator error.

Disagree. This is like saying that it's the officials' fault if there are 6 players on the floor. Should we have checked it prior to putting the ball in play. Yes. Did we put 6 players on the floor? NO.

Same thing. When we check to make sure the clock is properly started, it would be nice if we also checked to make sure the shot clock didn't get reset. But we didn't reset it. That's a table error, quite obviously.

Additionally, there are gyms where it's actually pretty tough to check the shot clock. I worked a D3 game last night where the shot clocks were mounted on the wall WAYYYYY off to the side, almost even with the benches. If you're the official on that side of the court, there's no way to watch the play and check the shot clock.

[pizanno]

ncaa 5-11.4

[APG]

Originally Posted by pizanno

ncaa 5-11.4

5-11
Art. 4. When an obvious mistake by the shot-clock operator has occurred in failing to start, stop, set or reset the shot clock or when a shot clock has malfunctioned, the mistake or the malfunctioning problem may be corrected in the shot-clock period in which it occurred only when the official has definite information relative to the mistake or malfunctioning problem and the time involved. Any activity, after the mistake or malfunctioning problem has been discovered, shall be canceled, excluding any flagrant foul, intentional foul, or technical foul.

I would say the officials could correct the error. They had definite knowledge that more than seven seconds elapsed on the shot clock. I would think this would still be considered during the same shot-clock period. Rule a shot clock violation, and add 3 seconds back to the game clock.

[Raymond]

This should settle this debate:

A.R. 138. The time on the game clock is 15:30 and the shot clock reads 0:30 for men and 0:25 for women. A1 shoots the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and does not hit the ring or flange. The shot-clock operator, by mistake, resets the shot clock. No one notices the mistake by the shot-clock operator at this time. The game clock gets to 14:55 for men and 15:00 for women and B2 commits a foul against A2. Now the officials get together and realize the shot-clock operator’s mistake.

RULING: When the officials have definite information relative to the shot-clock operator’s mistake, it is permissible to rectify that mistake. In this case, since the officials have definite information relative to the time involved, they shall put five seconds back on the game clock, cancel the foul and award the ball to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the ball became dead for the shot-clock violation.
(Rule 5-11.4)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This should settle this debate:

A.R. 138. The time on the game clock is 15:30 and the shot clock reads 0:30 for men and 0:25 for women. A1 shoots the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and does not hit the ring or flange. The shot-clock operator, by mistake, resets the shot clock. No one notices the mistake by the shot-clock operator at this time. The game clock gets to 14:55 for men and 15:00 for women and B2 commits a foul against A2. Now the officials get together and realize the shot-clock operator’s mistake.

RULING: When the officials have definite information relative to the
shot-clock operator’s mistake, it is permissible to rectify that mistake. In this case, since the officials have definite information relative to the time involved, they shall put five seconds back on the game clock, cancel the foul and award the ball to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the ball became dead for the shot-clock violation.
(Rule 5-11.4)

Wow, looks an awful lot like a do-over.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, looks an awful lot like a do-over.

Or a correctable error.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, looks an awful lot like a do-over.

Not a do-over at all, imo.

A do-over would be giving the ball back to A with 5 seconds left (or whatever the time was when they got the rebound).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not a do-over at all, imo.

A do-over would be giving the ball back to A with 5 seconds left (or whatever the time was when they got the rebound).

Yeah, I can see that. The idea of wiping a foul, though, and resetting the clock seems precariously close, IMO. Even a CE doesn't involve negating a foul.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This should settle this debate:

A.R. 138. The time on the game clock is 15:30 and the shot clock reads 0:30 for men and 0:25 for women. A1 shoots the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and does not hit the ring or flange. The shot-clock operator, by mistake, resets the shot clock. No one notices the mistake by the shot-clock operator at this time. The game clock gets to 14:55 for men and 15:00 for women and B2 commits a foul against A2. Now the officials get together and realize the shot-clock operator’s mistake.

RULING: When the officials have definite information relative to the shot-clock operator’s mistake, it is permissible to rectify that mistake. In this case, since the officials have definite information relative to the time involved, they shall put five seconds back on the game clock, cancel the foul and award the ball to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the ball became dead for the shot-clock violation.
(Rule 5-11.4)

Thanks, Bad. Would there be a point where the mistake could not be rectified?