Unusual Play tonight (shot clock reset when it shouldn't have )

[pizanno]

ncaa 5-11.4

[APG]

Originally Posted by pizanno

ncaa 5-11.4

5-11
Art. 4. When an obvious mistake by the shot-clock operator has occurred in failing to start, stop, set or reset the shot clock or when a shot clock has malfunctioned, the mistake or the malfunctioning problem may be corrected in the shot-clock period in which it occurred only when the official has definite information relative to the mistake or malfunctioning problem and the time involved. Any activity, after the mistake or malfunctioning problem has been discovered, shall be canceled, excluding any flagrant foul, intentional foul, or technical foul.

I would say the officials could correct the error. They had definite knowledge that more than seven seconds elapsed on the shot clock. I would think this would still be considered during the same shot-clock period. Rule a shot clock violation, and add 3 seconds back to the game clock.

[Raymond]

This should settle this debate:

A.R. 138. The time on the game clock is 15:30 and the shot clock reads 0:30 for men and 0:25 for women. A1 shoots the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and does not hit the ring or flange. The shot-clock operator, by mistake, resets the shot clock. No one notices the mistake by the shot-clock operator at this time. The game clock gets to 14:55 for men and 15:00 for women and B2 commits a foul against A2. Now the officials get together and realize the shot-clock operator’s mistake.

RULING: When the officials have definite information relative to the shot-clock operator’s mistake, it is permissible to rectify that mistake. In this case, since the officials have definite information relative to the time involved, they shall put five seconds back on the game clock, cancel the foul and award the ball to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the ball became dead for the shot-clock violation.
(Rule 5-11.4)

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This should settle this debate:

A.R. 138. The time on the game clock is 15:30 and the shot clock reads 0:30 for men and 0:25 for women. A1 shoots the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and does not hit the ring or flange. The shot-clock operator, by mistake, resets the shot clock. No one notices the mistake by the shot-clock operator at this time. The game clock gets to 14:55 for men and 15:00 for women and B2 commits a foul against A2. Now the officials get together and realize the shot-clock operator’s mistake.

RULING: When the officials have definite information relative to the
shot-clock operator’s mistake, it is permissible to rectify that mistake. In this case, since the officials have definite information relative to the time involved, they shall put five seconds back on the game clock, cancel the foul and award the ball to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the ball became dead for the shot-clock violation.
(Rule 5-11.4)

Wow, looks an awful lot like a do-over.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, looks an awful lot like a do-over.

Or a correctable error.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Wow, looks an awful lot like a do-over.

Not a do-over at all, imo.

A do-over would be giving the ball back to A with 5 seconds left (or whatever the time was when they got the rebound).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not a do-over at all, imo.

A do-over would be giving the ball back to A with 5 seconds left (or whatever the time was when they got the rebound).

Yeah, I can see that. The idea of wiping a foul, though, and resetting the clock seems precariously close, IMO. Even a CE doesn't involve negating a foul.

[Jeremy Hohn]

Well this is what I did. I brought the coaches together to which the home coach said "jeremy, we have a new shot clock operator, and you will have to watch her"

I told both this. I KNOW that more than 7 seconds went off the clock and now since we have lost 10 seconds off the game clock, we are going to add 3 seconds to the game clock, and award the ball to the home team due to the visiting team allowing the shot clock to expire.

The clock was verified at 7, but a good couple seconds after the inbound, the operator reset. Yes, we should have caught it, and working with a couple relatively new NCAA rules officials, I should have looked again.

Lesson learned, and both coaches had no problem with the ruling.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Yeah, I can see that. The idea of wiping a foul, though, and resetting the clock seems precariously close, IMO. Even a CE doesn't involve negating a foul.

It is simply using the principle of "definite knowledge" to reset the clock; you're not resetting the clock back to the original time, only back to the time where it was determined the violation occured. Then, as far as the "foul" is concerned, it would be no different than if you saw contact after the horn went off - you simply ignore it unless it was intentional or flagrant, since the violation occured first.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

It is simply using the principle of "definite knowledge" to reset the clock; you're not resetting the clock back to the original time, only back to the time where it was determined the violation occured. Then, as far as the "foul" is concerned, it would be no different than if you saw contact after the horn went off - you simply ignore it unless it was intentional or flagrant, since the violation occured first.

A retroactive dead ball? Do we do that for anything else 10 seconds after the fact?

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

This should settle this debate:

A.R. 138. The time on the game clock is 15:30 and the shot clock reads 0:30 for men and 0:25 for women. A1 shoots the ball with five seconds on the shot clock and does not hit the ring or flange. The shot-clock operator, by mistake, resets the shot clock. No one notices the mistake by the shot-clock operator at this time. The game clock gets to 14:55 for men and 15:00 for women and B2 commits a foul against A2. Now the officials get together and realize the shot-clock operator’s mistake.

RULING: When the officials have definite information relative to the shot-clock operator’s mistake, it is permissible to rectify that mistake. In this case, since the officials have definite information relative to the time involved, they shall put five seconds back on the game clock, cancel the foul and award the ball to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the ball became dead for the shot-clock violation.
(Rule 5-11.4)

Thanks, Bad. Would there be a point where the mistake could not be rectified?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Thanks, Bad. Would there be a point where the mistake could not be rectified?

Yes. When the "reset" shot clock expires.

[pizanno]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes. When the "reset" shot clock expires.

So 'shot-clock period' refers to the 'new' shot clock and not the previous? 5-11.4 states "...may be corrected in the shot-clock period in which it occurred." ("it" being the mistake, not the discovery)

Jeremy handled it properly (kudos), but i'm confused by the wording.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by pizanno

Thanks, Bad. Would there be a point where the mistake could not be rectified?

I haven't researched enough to give a definitive answer, but it seems the norm for most situations is before the 2nd live ball. But then what about a situation where after the shot clock should have expired then there is an OOB to Team A and then there is 2nd dead ball while A is in possession and the mistake is realized?