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  #121 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 09:16pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichMSN View Post
I've seen this in other states. Associations poach schools from other associations. Miserable practice. I much prefer working as a true independent contractor and working whatever schools I want to work.
How is it poaching? We don't call them, they call us. Are we supposed to turn them down? I prefer the independent contractor route as well, but there are no varsity assignments here that way. I called only varsity and jv around here for that reason. Finally almost all of that was turned over to associations, too.
It was register or quit at that point.
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 09:41pm
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Originally Posted by jurassic referee View Post
wow!

Nowayinhell can you call something like that "competition". That's nothing but freaking backstabbing. No wonder you guys are only getting $36/game if something like that is fairly prevalant. You're just screwing each other and in the end you're all paying for doing so.

No wonder the lhsaa has been getting away with underpaying for so many years.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 09:43pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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How can the switch of a school from one association to another have anything to do with money, when everybody gets paid the same?
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 09:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
How can the switch of a school from one association to another have anything to do with money, when everybody gets paid the same?
Are you saying everyone is paid the same all over the state or a region?

Peace
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:06pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Are you saying everyone is paid the same all over the state or a region?

Peace
The whole state
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:18pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
The whole state
And that seems to be the problem if you ask me.

Peace
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:25pm
We don't rent pigs
 
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
And that seems to be the problem if you ask me.

Peace
And the solution is?
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:28pm
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
And the solution is?
How about let conferences or school districts decide what the pay should be. You know like other sporting levels do.

Peace
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
And that seems to be the problem if you ask me.

Peace
And the problem is that when one group tries to grow a pair and stand up for themselves, the neighboring association comes swooping in to save the district from those nasty local officials.

It's the ultimate example of throwing your partner under the bus.

As for pay, here in CO there's a minimum that most schools just meet. There's nothing to prevent them from paying more, though. I would assume LA schools could likewise pay more than the state mandated peanuts.
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snaqwells View Post
and the problem is that when one group tries to grow a pair and stand up for themselves, the neighboring association comes swooping in to save the district from those nasty local officials.

It's the ultimate example of throwing your partner under the bus.
+100.
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  #131 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:57pm
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Our basketball association (Which books the vast majority of games for schools in this area of the state), contracts with individual schools to provide officials for their games. There is an agreed upon rate that the schools pay for each level of game, along with mileage. Our association allows us to schedule games on our own at any of the schools we service as long as they aren't varsity regular season games (Tournaments are okay as some schools book their own officials for their tournaments).

Some schools that are "in between" associations book their own officials for all games and decide on their own rates.

As far as contracts go, we use the Arbiter, but a small number of schools will send contracts as well for their games.
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  #132 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 10:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
And the problem is that when one group tries to grow a pair and stand up for themselves, the neighboring association comes swooping in to save the district from those nasty local officials.

It's the ultimate example of throwing your partner under the bus.

.
SNAQ I disagree with you on this. This is what free market capitalism is all about. Just like anything else, people pay what the market will bear. If the schools can get away with paying so little, that is on the people accepting the games. Unless and until the associations get on the same page, this practice will continue and I have no problem with it.
Eventually, if enough officials say it isn't worth my time, then there will be a shortage of workers. In order to increase the pool of workers the "employers" will have to 'sweeten' the pot. IMO, I don't think the state officiating associations realize how much leverage they actually have. I agree that when the issue is 'revisited' if the compensation isn't up to snuff, then the associations should walk. If other Associations "poach" from those that walk away, it will be a short term fix. Eventually, they are going to run out of officials who think it is worth the drive and time to take these games.

Free market competition. It's a bit*** but it is the American way!!!
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  #133 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 11:05pm
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I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it. I'm saying it's not "right." You say "until the associations get on the same page..." What do you think this is? It's undermining one another. I've got a problem with it.

AFAIC, the state association had a negotiated fix in place, and opted to punt instead. How many times would you like to revisit it?

Let me put it this way. How many warnings do we give a coach for poor behavior. They've been working on this since 2007. I'd say it's time to put on the adult pants, stand up, and blow the damned whistle.

I get FM competition, but those officials who are crossing the line are short sighted in that they're undermining the negotiating position of their brothers. Frankly, if that's what they want, then they can make $31 and ref forever at those rates.
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  #134 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 11:09pm
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We agree with everything but the 'undermining thing'. That is why I said I think it is stupid and short sighted. I am certainly not calling SMART, but I really have no problem with them doing it. B/C Karma, and the Free Market, is a Bi***. Let's fast forward 13 months when NEXT season is over and these "poachers" have provided poor service and are facing an exodus of officials. NOW when the schools come back to the bargaining table, those that walked away will be in a GREATER position of strength, and those that "poached" will most likely NOT be forgotten by those other associations.
So, we agree on like 95% of the stuff.
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  #135 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2011, 11:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
I'm not saying they don't have a right to do it. I'm saying it's not "right." You say "until the associations get on the same page..." What do you think this is? It's undermining one another. I've got a problem with it.

AFAIC, the state association had a negotiated fix in place, and opted to punt instead. How many times would you like to revisit it?

Let me put it this way. How many warnings do we give a coach for poor behavior. They've been working on this since 2007. I'd say it's time to put on the adult pants, stand up, and blow the damned whistle.

I get FM competition, but those officials who are crossing the line are short sighted in that they're undermining the negotiating position of their brothers. Frankly, if that's what they want, then they can make $31 and ref forever at those rates.
+100

Those who are continually willing to work for peanuts are undermining the entire avocation IMO.

Then again, it's hardly surprising when you consider that, apparently, half of the officials in LA are still wearing belts.
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