Louisiana Officials Possible Strike?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Judtech

We agree with everything but the 'undermining thing'. That is why I said I think it is stupid and short sighted. I am certainly not calling SMART, but I really have no problem with them doing it. B/C Karma, and the Free Market, is a Bi***. Let's fast forward 13 months when NEXT season is over and these "poachers" have provided poor service and are facing an exodus of officials. NOW when the schools come back to the bargaining table, those that walked away will be in a GREATER position of strength, and those that "poached" will most likely NOT be forgotten by those other associations.
So, we agree on like 95% of the stuff.

Fair enough. I'm saying they shouldn't do it. You're saying they shouldn't do it but if they want to, so be it. Let them suffer the consequences later.

If that's what you're saying, I can't really argue with it.

Let me finish (for now) by saying you can bet I'd hold it against the poachers/scabs, too. My scratch list would grow, for one.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And the problem is that when one group tries to grow a pair and stand up for themselves, the neighboring association comes swooping in to save the district from those nasty local officials.

It's the ultimate example of throwing your partner under the bus.

What are you talking about?? The group standing up for themselves? What does this mean? Swooping in??

When I said competition it means trying to do the best job and being appreciated and ultimately chosen to work somewhere. How is this any different than a single school cutting a single official? Are the guys from that same association guilty of something when they go to call the next game at that school?

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If that's what you're saying, I can't really argue with it.

.

Of course you can't because you are wrong and I am right!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Judtech

This is what free market capitalism is all about.

Since when are local officiating associations in competition with each other for schools? Offering lower fees? No travel fees?

Snaq is right. It's throwing your fellow officials under the bus. Here, the NCHSAA doesn't allow it. You get officials from the local association you're assigned to. We avoid such nonsense.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Since when are local officiating associations in competition with each other for schools? Offering lower fees? No travel fees?

Snaq is right. It's throwing your fellow officials under the bus. Here, the NCHSAA doesn't allow it. You get officials from the local association you're assigned to. We avoid such nonsense.

The only way there is competition is who is providing the best quality job, which obviously is in the eye of the beholder. Who goes where is decided to a large degree by geography, but, as far as I know, any school is free to use any association it chooses. Mileage is paid based on distance from the home of the association, not the actual mileage driven by the officials on any given night. So, game fees + mileage can still sometimes come out to be exactly the same for one school which changes from one association to another.
As far as Snaq's comment earlier about one group standing up for itself, I'm all for that but not when it leaves people in a lurch while breaking a previous agreement. I own a Mack truck. I haul mainly for myself, but occasionally for others. If I have been hauling for you for a hundred bucks a trip and decide I need more, I should call you to discuss terms, right in the middle of a load.

"Hey, boss. I'd like to keep hauling for you, but the next load is gonna cost a hundred and fifty. What? Too pricey? Fine, that's up to you, but in that case I'm just gonna dump this load on the side of the road."

Is this how one "stands up for oneself" in other parts of the world? Not here.

[just another ref]

It should be mentioned, if it hasn't already, that only 4 associations out of 14 were involved in this short-lived walkout. So who looks worse, the 4 that walked out, or the 10 that agreed to honor a previous commitment?

[zm1283]

I just can't believe that officials in LA work for those pathetic game fees. They wouldn't have officials (Or would have very bad ones) if the game fees were that low here.

[Camron Rust]

Just a few questions I have for all those who are criticizing the officials who are continuing to work or are looking to pick up extra work when others turn it back....

Who here gets bids from 3-5 mechanics/plumbers/contractors/painters who have similar reputations for quality of work and takes one of the most expensive bids on the grounds that the lowest priced mechanic is undermining the other 2?

Who, when such a mechanic/plumber/contractor/painter estimates a price for a job but when they get closer to the job and realizes they want to charge more will move to a different vendor that will do it for the old price?

Who shops for a car, drives the car, takes up an hour or two of the salesman's time then buys the car elsewhere because they can get it cheaper but have to wait a week or two for it?

Who spends time in a store shopping for something, using the salesperson to help you decide and then buys it on the internet?

All that said, I do think they're grossly underpaid and should work to get their pay raised but they need to get everyone on board instead of a few localized protests. If there are 10 of 14 organizations that are "satisfied" with they pay as it seems to be, they'll not get far.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

And the problem is that when one group tries to grow a pair and stand up for themselves, the neighboring association comes swooping in to save the district from those nasty local officials.

It's the ultimate example of throwing your partner under the bus.

+1000, Snaqs

On one side you have officials willing to personally give up money to try and gain better game fees for ALL of the officials in their state. On the other side you have people circling like vultures just waiting to get every extra penny out of the dispute that they can. Do the vultures care that they're only hurting themselves in the long run? Naw, they're happy as hell as long as long as they can make a few extra bucks out of it now. And the LHSAA knows that they can always find vultures available to do their games for $36. There's just no reason for them to give anybody a raise. They don't have to do that to be able to still cover games.

You can promise something back in 2007 and when you don't follow up the promises, it's just "too bad, too sad, live with it" time. Well, that's just wrong imo.

Maybe the LHSAA should compromise. Give periodic raises to the officials and keep paying $36/game indefinitely to the vultures. That should keep everybody happy.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Just a few questions I have for all those who are criticizing the officials who are continuing to work or are looking to pick up extra work when others turn it back....

Who here gets bids from 3-5 mechanics/plumbers/contractors/painters who have similar reputations for quality of work and takes one of the most expensive bids on the grounds that the lowest priced mechanic is undermining the other 2?

Who, when such a mechanic/plumber/contractor/painter estimates a price for a job but when they get closer to the job and realizes they want to charge more will move to a different vendor that will do it for the old price?

Who shops for a car, drives the car, takes up an hour or two of the salesman's time then buys the car elsewhere because they can get it cheaper but have to wait a week or two for it?

Who spends time in a store shopping for something, using the salesperson to help you decide and then buys it on the internet?

All that said, I do think they're grossly underpaid and should work to get their pay raised but they need to get everyone on board instead of a few localized protests. If there are 10 of 14 organizations that are "satisfied" with they pay as it seems to be, they'll not get far.

Well done, you just defended the schools down there. My problem is with the officials, though.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

On one side you have officials willing to personally give up money to try and gain better game fees for ALL of the officials in their state. On the other side you have people circling like vultures just waiting to get every extra penny out of the dispute that they can. Do the vultures care that they're only hurting themselves in the long run? Naw, they're happy as hell as long as long as they can make a few extra bucks out of it now. And the LHSAA knows that they can always find vultures available to do their games for $36. There's just no reason for them to give anybody a raise. They don't have to do that to be able to still cover games.

You can promise something back in 2007 and when you don't follow up the promises, it's just "too bad, too sad, live with it" time. Well, that's just wrong imo.

Maybe the LHSAA should compromise. Give periodic raises to the officials and keep paying $36/game indefinitely to the vultures. That should keep everybody happy.

The guys who refused to work in the middle of the season after making a commitment to do so are now "giving up money" while the "vultures" come in to pick up these "extra bucks." Well, according to you, (this point is valid) there was no money to be made at the current rate in the first place, so what were they giving up, other than credibility. I was set to make a 300 mile round trip yesterday to call 2 games and come home with about $150.
You think this was for personal gain?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The guys who refused to work in the middle of the season after making a commitment to do so are now "giving up money" while the "vultures" come in to pick up these "extra bucks." Well, according to you, (this point is valid) there was no money to be made at the current rate in the first place, so what were they giving up, other than credibility. I was set to make a 300 mile round trip yesterday to call 2 games and come home with about $150.
You think this was for personal gain?

Yes, if it was doing games that another group of officials declined to do in their pursuit of a decent per game fee.

Some officials are refusing games at the current ridiculously low state pay scale to try and raise the game fee levels for all of the officials in their state. The buzzards though are happy to swoop in and take those games at the current ridiculously low state pay scale to make a few extra bucks. The result? The LHSAA is happy as hell to get their games covered and there is absolutely no incentive for them to ever offer the officials a raise. Been like that since 2007, hasn't it?

The buzzards deserve $36 a game imo.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes, if it was doing games that another group of officials declined to do in their pursuit of a decent per game fee.

Some officials are refusing games at the current ridiculously low state pay scale to try and raise the game fee levels for all of the officials in their state. The buzzards though are happy to swoop in and take those games at the current ridiculously low state pay scale to make a few extra bucks. The result? The LHSAA is happy as hell to get their games covered and there is absolutely no incentive for them to ever offer the officials a raise. Been like that since 2007, hasn't it?

The buzzards deserve $36 a game imo.

So you think it is an acceptable practice to stop working, right in the middle of a job you have agreed to do?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Just a few questions I have for all those who are criticizing the officials who are continuing to work or are looking to pick up extra work when others turn it back....

Who here gets bids from 3-5 mechanics/plumbers/contractors/painters who have similar reputations for quality of work and takes one of the most expensive bids on the grounds that the lowest priced mechanic is undermining the other 2?

Who, when such a mechanic/plumber/contractor/painter estimates a price for a job but when they get closer to the job and realizes they want to charge more will move to a different vendor that will do it for the old price?

Who shops for a car, drives the car, takes up an hour or two of the salesman's time then buys the car elsewhere because they can get it cheaper but have to wait a week or two for it?

Who spends time in a store shopping for something, using the salesperson to help you decide and then buys it on the internet?

All that said, I do think they're grossly underpaid and should work to get their pay raised but they need to get everyone on board instead of a few localized protests. If there are 10 of 14 organizations that are "satisfied" with they pay as it seems to be, they'll not get far.

All valid. And: If you are the mechanic, and all mechanics charge the same, and a customer wants to switch from another mechanic to you because he was unsatisfied with previous work, do you refuse the job because it would be stabbing a fellow mechanic in the back?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes, if it was doing games that another group of officials declined to do in their pursuit of a decent per game fee.

Some officials are refusing games at the current ridiculously low state pay scale to try and raise the game fee levels for all of the officials in their state. The buzzards though are happy to swoop in and take those games at the current ridiculously low state pay scale to make a few extra bucks. The result? The LHSAA is happy as hell to get their games covered and there is absolutely no incentive for them to ever offer the officials a raise. Been like that since 2007, hasn't it?

The buzzards deserve $36 a game imo.

I don't get the reason for taking games 150 miles away, personally. Is it some "think of the children, let's swoop in riding white horses and save them" mentality? Well, those children will be just fine missing a game or two or even more if necessary.

I found the fees for LA:

http://lhsaa.org/images/db_handbook/47.pdf

Basketball - $36 for 2-person, $31 for 3-person (only at the highest classification -- at lower classifications, an official could receive as little as $28 in a 3-person crew)

Soccer - $45 per official

Baseball - $55 per official

Football - $75 per official (the white hat gets an extra $15)

Softball - $95 per crew (it appears the plate umpire gets $50 and the base umpire $45)

What I find stunning is that basketball officials and soccer officials are so underpaid compared with other sports. I mean, basketball paid considerably less than SOFTBALL? Really?