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A fumble does not wipe the slate clean. Consider fumble-dribble-fumble vs. dribble-fumble-dribble. The former is legal; the latter is not --assuming there's a ball hold before the second dribble -- because you still have two dribbles. The fumble was fine, until the player started directing the ball to another spot. Once he gained control a second time, I have a travel. |
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2) How about dribble-fumble-grab ball? You do realize that's what you insist on saying has to be traveling, don't you? On second thought, no, you obviously don't realize that. 3) Did you even bother to read case book play 4.15COMMENT? The one that said that there's NO player control during a batt? You can't call a travel by rule on this play when the player regains player control unless the player actually travels AFTER regaining player control. Bainsey, quite simply you have a very weak understanding of some very basic basketball rules. It's truly unfortunate that you a have a local IAABO board interpreter that shares that problem and can't help you out. |
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Now, my replies... Quote:
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The very weak understanding is not my rules knowledge, sir, but rather your understanding of my point, as evident above. Or, you're ready to jump on me for disagreements we've had before, and aren't all that concerned about considering my point. Re-read my point from earlier, and if you don't understand it, ask for clarity. Be careful what motivates you. |
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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Yours: Rebound (no control)- tip by A-1 (still no control) - ball goes into A's backcourt, A-2 holds the ball (player control) = legal, because there was no team control in the frontcourt after the shot. Billy's: A-1 holds the ball (player control) - A-1 fumbles - A-1 bats the ball intentionally on the floor - A-1 picks up the ball (player control) = travelling. More succinctly, the fact that Billy's sitch started with control, and yours did not, is the key difference. Again, I see intentionally moving the ball on the floor the same as moving the ball in the air, provided there was player control on both ends. |
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Let's change it slightly again. A1 fumbles the ball (already used his dribble) in the air. Runs to get it and bats it in the air. He runs to get it, and bats it again (outjumps a defender) before taking two more steps to retrieve the ball. Call?
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Sprinkles are for winners. |
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It looks like that's the crux of our difference. I say team control is relevant, because if team control were lost (i.e. a try for goal), then a travel for recovering the ball would indeed be impossible. However, since team control remained throughout (i.e. the ball travelling through the air, not a shot), then travelling is still possible, IMO.
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I suppose the issue is whether you think a fumble gives a player carte blanche to move the ball as he sees fit. I don't think so. |
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Let's Be Accurate ...
For accuracy's sake, I blew the whistle before A1 picked up the ball. I blew it after the third tap and roll (actually after the second intentional tap and roll, I judged the first tap and roll to be a fumble).
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
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Indeed the bats are not control, so I have nothing until the ball is picked up on this play. |
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I'm done, bainsey. I'm tired of repeating myself and it's obviously a waste of both our times.
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Probably so. Suit yourself, sir. You wouldn't have to repeat yourself, anyway, if you aimed for understanding.
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